Canada's military history (among other things)

Kirk1701

Kirk1701

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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/how-stephen-harper-is-rewriting-history-185310443.html

Perhaps this doesn't belong on this forum, but this is a really interesting article. I've been in arguments over on Facebook with some people who know nothing of or are embarrassed by Canada's military history. I personally think that's a problem. Granted, it's only been in the last year or so that I've become interested in Canada's contribution to world events, but in so doing, I've come to see the world and my country a little differently than I may have before. A little education goes a long way. Those service people gave their lives so we could argue about whether they should have or not.

I will say I feel like it's a lot of money that possibly could be spent better. I like our social programs here, but I know that the only reason we have them is because people fought and died. That's a difficult razor's-edge to walk.

Your thoughts?
 
The only Canadian history I was taught in school was focused on Confederation and the first handful of Prime Ministers. We are not taught nearly enough of our country's history, in my opinion. Everything else I have learned about our country's history was learned through my own exploration/research.

On that note, I just got this from Amazon the other day and it has been moved to the top of the rather large stack of books on my bedside table.

http://www.amazon.ca/Military-History-Canada-Desmond-Morton/dp/0771064810/
 
Well... we have a Heritage Minister as a Federal Cabinet position, so that tells me that, yes, the Federal Government should ensure that Canadians know as much as possible about all aspects of Canada's history. To tell the truth, considering our government is responsible for our military's actions, then they should obviously be responsible for educating Canadians about our military history, especially.
 
Click-Pow said:
Well... we have a Heritage Minister as a Federal Cabinet position, so that tells me that, yes, the Federal Government should ensure that Canadians know as much as possible about all aspects of Canada's history. To tell the truth, considering our government is responsible for our military's actions, then they should obviously be responsible for educating Canadians about our military history, especially.
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I completely agree. It's not a popular opinion of late, though. The Opposition has been waging a smear campaign against the government for a couple years now. I've yet to hear anybody come up with something they'd rather see happen. They just want to #### on the government.
 
I've been a life-long student of military history. As much as it interests me, it is still a sub-set of the larger picture of Canadian history, including early exploration, national development, foreign affairs and the evolution of our society and our country and it's culture and institutions. Military history does not exist in a vacuum and should be considered in this larger context. This is how it was presented in our schools in the 1950s/60s when I was a young person. In recent years there has been a definite trend to both dumb down and to neutralize our military past in the education system to the point where WW2 is about persecution of Japanese Canadians and everything since then is about politically correct social themes and Canadians being "peacekeepers", instead of the fighters that they were. A lot of this comes from tax funded leftist social engineers who have had too much say in how our history is interpreted and presented.

I recall the 50th anniversary of VE Day back in 1995 when Macleans magazine, that stalwart bastion of truth and information, wrote a long article about how it was in Holland on VE Day back in 1945 where "the soft spring air was heavy with the smell of chewing gum and sperm" as hordes of Dutch homosexuals descended on the Canadian troops to express their gratitude to their liberators. From talking to many who were there it was actually the Dutch women who did all of the "thanking".

In a mature country, which we are, there is no need for expensive and politically directed government apparatuses, like the Ministry of Heritage or Culture, as they now exist. If history and culture are worthwhile, they should be able to stand and flourish on their own merits without any artificial interventions or twists by government or institutions like the CBC to suit the current agenda. Personally, I think the Federal Government's focus on the war of 1812 was somewhat over the top.
 
From the OPs' link----The museum guy is moaning about how Canada Hall sucks, and that the Gov. has given him 25 million to make it better, but the title makes it out like PM Harper is somehow screwing over the museum by "rewriting history". Am I missing something or is the media bias just a little too thick?
 
purple said:
I've been a life-long student of military history. As much as it interests me, it is still a sub-set of the larger picture of Canadian history, including early exploration, national development, foreign affairs and the evolution of our society and our country and it's culture and institutions. Military history does not exist in a vacuum and should be considered in this larger context. This is how it was presented in our schools in the 1950s/60s when I was a young person. In recent years there has been a definite trend to both dumb down and to neutralize our military past in the education system to the point where WW2 is about persecution of Japanese Canadians and everything since then is about politically correct social themes and Canadians being "peacekeepers", instead of the fighters that they were. A lot of this comes from tax funded leftist social engineers who have had too much say in how our history is interpreted and presented.

I recall the 50th anniversary of VE Day back in 1995 when Macleans magazine, that stalwart bastion of truth and information, wrote a long article about how it was in Holland on VE Day back in 1945 where "the soft spring air was heavy with the smell of chewing gum and sperm" as hordes of Dutch homosexuals descended on the Canadian troops to express their gratitude to their liberators. From talking to many who were there it was actually the Dutch women who did all of the "thanking".

In a mature country, which we are, there is no need for expensive and politically directed government apparatuses, like the Ministry of Heritage or Culture, as they now exist. If history and culture are worthwhile, they should be able to stand and flourish on their own merits without any artificial interventions or twists by government or institutions like the CBC to suit the current agenda. Personally, I think the Federal Government's focus on the war of 1812 was somewhat over the top.
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Does it make me suspect if I also find this agreeable? There's many young people who know virtually nothing of the War of 1812. Is it the government's responsibility to educate them? Technically, if it was taught in schools then it would be the government's responsibility. But clearly it isn't taught. So what's left? I'm not thrilled about the amount of money being spent to re-educate people and of course it's going to have a political bent, just as the left-wing used politics to swing the other way. The bigger question, then, is how do we redress the balance? The gap widens between leftist ignorance and right-wing imperialism (for lack of a better term). The liberals of the 70s initially threw the balance off. You described yourself how unbalanced the education system has been. How do you regain that balance? I feel like that's what the current government is doing, albeit a little over-enthusiastically.

Of course this discussion isn't just about military history. But social, political, and economic history of the 19th and 20th century is tied indistinguishably to military history.
 
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lister said:
From the OPs' link----The museum guy is moaning about how Canada Hall sucks, and that the Gov. has given him 25 million to make it better, but the title makes it out like PM Harper is somehow screwing over the museum by "rewriting history". Am I missing something or is the media bias just a little too thick?
Click to expand...

That's one of my questions. I feel it's a leftist smear campaign. Still, $25 million could go a long way in improving the day to day lives of all Canadians. I don't have any idea where I'd prefer the money to go, though.
 
"...on Facebook..." Isn't exactly a bastion of higher learning. Get yourself to your public library and read all the books on our military heritage. Far more of 'em than you'd think and not all of 'em by Pierre Burton. Arthur Bishop(Billy's little boy), for example, has written several about 6 Bomber Group and the rest of the RCAF.
"...actually the Dutch women who did all of the "thanking"..." Yep. Lots of little blond kids running around in '46.
Political Correctness is thanks to Mulroney and Trudeau the Elder buggering up the CF.
 
shootemup said:
The 100th anniversary of the start of WW1 is coming up. I expect there will be significant national focus - Canada really did become a nation at Vimy...
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If we became a nation in WW1, then how come in WW2 we could not say we were Canadian, because we did not have a nationality!
Soldiers joining up for WW2 were asked for their nationality, and it couldn't be Canadian. They had to say either French or English, or say where there dad came from.
One fellow we knew was furious. His family was from Switzerland, but they wouldn't accept that, saying Swiss were either French or German, so he had to say he was either French or German!
 
My understanding is that we were told we were going to war in WW1 by Britain. We chose to go to war in WW2 as a independent sovereign nation.
 
sunray said:
"...on Facebook..." Isn't exactly a bastion of higher learning. Get yourself to your public library and read all the books on our military heritage. Far more of 'em than you'd think and not all of 'em by Pierre Burton. Arthur Bishop(Billy's little boy), for example, has written several about 6 Bomber Group and the rest of the RCAF.
Click to expand...

I've read tons. Besides which, Facebook is a pretty good measure of the average person's knowledge base.
 
I was just responding to H4831s comment about not being able to say we were Canadian. We certainly did become a nation in WW1, but we solidified it and not as Britain's biotch in WW2.
 
The King and Great Britain declared WAR in 1914, but the contributions of the various countries within the Empire/Commonwealth were left with the LOCAL Governments.

Canada didn't have to send ONE man overseas in the Great War. Didn't have to buy that beautiful Chilean battlewagon, either.

Nor did Newfoundland.

Or Australia.

Or New Zealand.

Or South Africa.

Or India.

Nor fifty other places.

But they all DID. And this deserves to be remembered, MUST be remembered.

25 million bucks works out to one-fifth of a Big Mac for every person in the country: 2 bites and enough saturated fats to set your heart quaking. For that kind of money, I want my country's HISTORY properly told...... for a change.

The problem is that SO much has been concealed, covered up, de-emphasized, lied bout, misrepresented, for so very long, that it will take a major effort to rebalance things. Such a massive effort will require decades (it took from the early 1960s until now to screw it up: over 50 years. It will not be set straight in a week.

We are doing what we can, right here.

As for the rest, the Gummint can have my 70 cents.

Anybody else willing to forgo on-fifth of a Big Mac?
 
I would love to see more of Canada`s military history on tv. Seems like the Military channel is all American and the "History" channel is all current stuff. There doesn`t seem to be much about Canada.
 
seeing as the history courses taught at the local high school as of 3 years ago everything was optional minus Canadian history which was a utter joke the class spent 30 minutes of 2 world wars, no mention of the Northwest Rebellion (they called it the metis revolt and was just a passing footnote.) nothing on the boer war(South African war to whoever gets offended by Boer war) and absolutely nothing on Korea or any other peacekeeping actions. Just a utter joke that this generation will learn nothing, heck I learned more and have more in common with the all the old folks that I work with at the local military museum.

And university is a bit better if your a history major but little specialization on Canada with a whole four classes on Canada and two of which are first year general introduction course the other two are specialty courses one on western settlement up to 1885 and the other on the Chinese Canadian Experience.

so anyone else for big-macs for history I'm certainly game.
 
Y'know I've been having a youtube war with some snot-nosed punk who seems to think the final battle in "Passchendaele" is "unrealistic." He's got the impression that the Germans are depicted as useless, where the Canadians are pumped-up supermen. How far have we come that we can't believe our grandfathers were at least competent fighters? Is it that inconceivable that they could match skills with the best? What kind of brainwashing have these kids undergone?
 
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