Canadian Ammo ?

[biggerair]

I was wondering if any ammo is made in Canada. I couldnt find any info on this. If none is made in Canada then why not ? Do we really import all of our ammo ?
Shooting is huge in Canada as we all know, So why doesnt a company step up. Certain ammo can be tricky to find and the border is always to blame.
It would be good for all of us to cure this problem.

 

[sunray]

Ever heard of IVI? Other than them, there is no major manufacturer. It's not cost effective to build a plant for such a small market.

 

[skeetgunner]

SNC Lavelin, Challenger to name a few. There's also a few ammo remanufacturing companies, basically professional reloaders.

 

[biggerair]

Ammo

Ever heard of IVI? Other than them, there is no major manufacturer. It's not cost effective to build a plant for such a small market.

I think the market is bigger than we think. Due to the fact that ammo is getting harder to find. Some stores are sold out of certain ammo, like .45 right away.
And the sport is getting bigger not smaller. I have been shooting for 30 years and have seen it grow to a very large market.
IVI used to be CIL right ?

 

[Kilo Charlie]

Yes, IVI used to be CIL. Unfortunately, hunters and shooters chose to buy more and more Federal, Remington and Winchester ammo during the '60's and '70's and that was the end. They offered a stunning array of cartridges back when. They were the last North American company to load 6.5 Swede for several years. They made 6.5 Carcano, .351 WSL, and of course all the standards. They made 220 grain .30-06 loads, and the only 160 grain .270 load available. They had plastic-tipped bullets in factory loads more than 10 years before Nosler "invented" the Ballistic Tip.
I don't know that hunter apathy was the only reason they closed civilian sales. But it was certainly a factor. And I remember how I as a young hunter in the early seventies, and many of my friends, passed on the CIL Sabretips and bought the Winchester Silvertips for our .30-30's. It's kind of funny to recollect now, but many out-of-the-way general stores would carry only the CIL ammo. It was cheaper than the competition by a buck a box, and there were less calibres in common use anyway. Unless you went to an actual sporting goods shop, most gas stations only stocked the big sellers...the '06, .308, .30-30.
IVI still manufactures our military ammo, both small-arm and 20 mm machine cannon. Dunno about artillery. But I would be hesitant about starting a gun company or ammo company in Canada. I think one could easily go belly-up while the vast majority of shooters would "wait to see if it catches on." Guns more so than ammo, though.

 

[Dragoon]

Shooting is huge in Canada as we all know.......

I think you're a victim of wishful thinking. From what I've been led to believe, Winchester's ammo production for the Canadian market takes up only four days of the year....

 

[LocknLoad]

Hunter apathy wasn't the reason why people started to shift from IVI to other brands. CIL was of excellent renouned quality from what I am given to understand. Could be that people decided that the quality wasn't as good. I remember that as far as DCRA was concerned is that they were constantly searching for the DA 64, 65, 66 and 67 7.62 rounds for their competitions and didn't want the early IVI. How IVI is doing now--don't know as they have been out of the commercial market for some time now and others in the military can tell you about how they find the current rounds.

 

[bearhunter]

CIL made excellent ammunition. They made it iquantiy and at very competitive prices. As far as people buying other makers ammo and putting them out of business, that really wasn't the case.
Canadian Industries Limited was a huge (for Canada) company that was very diversefied. They made everything from clothing and paint to explosives and ammunition. They were also large importers of a vast array of goods that bore their logo.
You could say that they were almost the original Walmart, except that they were manufacturers and entrepenuers that acted as distributors rather than a retail outlet. A very well managed, diverse and profitable company.
When the original founders retired or died off, the company fell into a funk. The new management didn't really have any interest in their traditional line of products and became careless with factory upkeep. They had a few disasters at their explosives plant and some of the others fell into disrepair.
Eventually they started to break up the company into smaller pieces, Dominion Industries for example and several others.
Then along came the 1970s version of Onex and Cannacord. They bought up as much as they could of CIL and proceeded to modernise what was left of the company's structure. They trimmed as much as they could by selling off the infrastructre and patents. This went on for quite a while, to bad, it was a great Canadian company that got caught up by the whirlwind of beginning globalisation.
Remember, the Vietnam war was in full swing dureing the latter part of their existance and their coffers were flush with cash. Their owners and stockholders felt it was a good time to sell off the assets for a large quick profit. The profit was made and Canada lost a huge manufacturing base as well as an irreplaceble skill and knowledge base.
Such is life, where would we be without change. The above is a very short version of what went on. Most of what went on is archived somewhere. I don't know where though so don't ask. Not that anyone is really interested anymore. Damn, I'm really getting old. Bearhunter

 

[tootall]

Ever heard of IVI? Other than them, there is no major manufacturer. It's not cost effective to build a plant for such a small market.

Ever heard of Lapua, from Finland? Population 5.3 million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland

or Hirtenberg from Austria, pop. 8.3 M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria
IMI of Isreal, 7.1 M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isreal
etc.

 

[biggerair]

I think you're a victim of wishful thinking. From what I've been led to believe, Winchester's ammo production for the Canadian market takes up only four days of the year....

Untill I see some proof I call B.S., some stores are out of Winchester ammo,so if four days is true its not enough.

 

[H4831]

Canadian Ammo

As has been pointed out by many, CIL Dominion brand ammunition was top of the line. Their 'Copper point expanding,' center fire bullet was great. On moose size animals I think it was superior to Nosler (after they were invented.) It seemed to maintain more of its original weight and it opened up beautifully. A man I know who once shot a lot of grizzly bears used Dominion ammo in 30-06 with the Copper Point expanding and swore by them.
I have also had some experience with the Dominion rim fire, as all the decorations below are all mine. However, it may take someone as old as "Bearhunter" says he is to know about the old Dominion Marksman program.
The three Winchester patches in the upper right were a celebration of Winchester in 1967, their 100th anniversary.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q65/H4831/P1020143.jpg

I think IVI made some agreement to use the CIL term, Imperial, when they took over, but that was as far as the comparison goes. I had a box of 'Imerial IVI,' for 243 that claimed on the box the velocity was 3200 FPS with the 100 grain bullet. I fired 5 through a Oehler 33, with my Ruger 77. The high was 2602, with a low of 2473, for 2540 average with a 125 spread.
Five minutes later, without moving the rifle from the bench, I shot 5 of my handloads, 100 grain Siera and XX grains of Norma 205. The high was 3112, the low 3069, for a 3094 average with a spread of 43 FPS. Need more be said!

 

[ilovepotatos]

I'm a young guy right now, but I'm really considering opening my own ammunition manufacturing company when I get a little older. I think it'd be fun, and it sounds like there's a lot of money to be made.

 

[skeetgunner]

Untill I see some proof I call B.S., some stores are out of Winchester ammo,so if four days is true its not enough.

Probably drive by the fact that

Winchester .22rf ammo is under recall,

one of their main plants in East Alton, is down for retooling

The Tennessee plant is not on-line yet and

they just picked up a $70M USD contract to supply the US Department of Defense

 

[iceman2]

CIL ammunition was made in Brownsburg Quebec.The first munnitions were made for WWII and after the war they continued making sporting ammunition. The "sabre tip "bullets were pre Nosler. My dad worked at the plant, the only thing there now is the blasting cap division. I think that maybe the road flares are still there also. they had an active shooting program for kids and were well received in my area. I sure miss the factory seconds my Dad used to bring home,mostly for shotgun it was bad crimps or poor printing of shot size. We could get 22 by the pail if you wanted, not great for hunting but for target what the heck.( some missfires due to poor priming of the rims) The old paper shells sure smelled great and brings back great memorys of early mornings in duck blinds with my Dad.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

As has been pointed out by many, CIL Dominion brand ammunition was top of the line. Their 'Copper point expanding,' center fire bullet was great. On moose size animals I think it was superior to Nosler (after they were invented.) It seemed to maintain more of its original weight and it opened up beautifully. A man I know who once shot a lot of grizzly bears used Dominion ammo in 30-06 with the Copper Point expanding and swore by them.
I have also had some experience with the Dominion rim fire, as all the decorations below are all mine. However, it may take someone as old as "Bearhunter" says he is to know about the old Dominion Marksman program.
The three Winchester patches in the upper right were a celebration of Winchester in 1967, their 100th anniversary.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q65/H4831/P1020143.jpg

I think IVI made some agreement to use the CIL term, Imperial, when they took over, but that was as far as the comparison goes. I had a box of 'Imerial IVI,' for 243 that claimed on the box the velocity was 3200 FPS with the 100 grain bullet. I fired 5 through a Oehler 33, with my Ruger 77. The high was 2602, with a low of 2473, for 2540 average with a 125 spread.
Five minutes later, without moving the rifle from the bench, I shot 5 of my handloads, 100 grain Siera and XX grains of Norma 205. The high was 3112, the low 3069, for a 3094 average with a spread of 43 FPS. Need more be said!

Congrats, I have similar in rifle.
My experience with CIL rimfire was, that they in general were OK, I didn't feel they were as accurate as the Winchester T22's of the period though, and they did tend to have more misfires.
The range once got an entire box of CIL ammo with no primers painted in the rims. (we took one apart)
In 303, I found them to be loaded a bit hot. Factory loads generally stretched the brass too badly to be reloaded in rifles that were well worn, while Winchester, or Remington brass, reportedly tamer loaded, had surviving brass.
I had no chrony back then, so I am only going by the brass condition.

 

[koldt]

Winchester's ammo production for the Canadian market takes up only four days of the year....

I would not even think it was that much. I have spoken directly to sales, manufacturing and marketing people in Lewiston, ID at CCI, and their quote to me was Canada's total production takes less than 2 days for all of CCI/Blount/Speer's contribution to our country.

Maybe Winchester's run for our Fed govt Black Talon, sorry Ranger , adds a day or so onto the lot. But we are a spit in the ocean.

 

[uphere]

dominion used to be Canadian i think

 

[biggerair]

I would not even think it was that much. I have spoken directly to sales, manufacturing and marketing people in Lewiston, ID at CCI, and their quote to me was Canada's total production takes less than 2 days for all of CCI/Blount/Speer's contribution to our country.

Maybe Winchester's run for our Fed govt Black Talon, sorry Ranger , adds a day or so onto the lot. But we are a spit in the ocean.

Then the lack or certain ammo is because of the border ?
IVI only covers a little bit of the civilian market and leans toward the military market.

 

[biggerair]

I'm a young guy right now, but I'm really considering opening my own ammunition manufacturing company when I get a little older. I think it'd be fun, and it sounds like there's a lot of money to be made.

You would have the support of myself and many others. I would buy CANADIAN ammo before any other.
I bought some oddball import ammo the other day and what a joke. It wouldnt even lock the slide on my 1911A1 after the last shot.

 

[Garand]

IVI was bought out by SNC Lavolin, which in turn has been bought out by General Dynamics. Given the shortfall of small arms ammo (saa) in the US Army, don't hold your breath about GD going into commercial production.