Canadian market incentivizes destroying collector's guns?

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NorthWoods22

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I ran into this forum post the other day:

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/why-would-someone-do-such-a-thing-to-these-beautiful-guns.1196838/

I was not aware that there is a large market for rechambered antique guns in Canada.
This goes beyond the typical rechambering's I've seen in the states (a Vetterli rimfire to centerfire conversion is very common since rimfire 41 Swiss is collector-only ammo and impossible to reload for) or ones done en-masse by previous importers (webely's shaved for 45 ACP).

Instead, it looks like some dealers (?) are buying collector grade guns and intentionally rechambering them? Or even worse yet, in some cases, refinishing them.

If you click on that link, there are examples of the French Mle 1873 11mm73 revolver being purposely rechambered to 45 ACP.
I know that in the collector's market in the states, there are some unscrupulous sellers who will tell you the Mle 1873 they're selling was rechambered by the French Resistance during WW2 to add some historical panache. But the majority of us know that there is a large proportion of guns that GI's and collector's in the 1950's rechamberd to 45 ACP for shooting convenience. But that it was understandable since reloading wasn't popular, so it wasn't different from shaving webley's for 45 ACP ball ammo.

But apparently this dealer is bragging that he has had these guns recently professionaly rechambered.
I thought at a minimum sellers would try to pass it off as historically relevant, sort of like how some sellers will make up stories for erroneous markings on WW2 german guns. But apparently he isn't even pretending that it is from the French Resistance, but actually using the fact that it was recently professionaly rechambered as a selling point?

Even more egregious are the gaudy nickel finishes.


Can anyone tell me why intentionally ruining the collector's value on these guns is particularly desireable in Canada, and how big of a market in Canada it is to do this to these collectible artifacts?

To be frank I'm hoping that the upcoming election changes regulations for you guys so that the financial incentive to destroy these historical pieces is eliminated.
 
Well, you just keep voting Lieberal and I'm sure your wish will come true, along with any incentive to own any firearm at all.
I like the fact that you would like the government to change the laws to force your opinion onto others as to what they can do with their property.
 
NorthWoods22 said:
I ran into this forum post the other day:

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/why-would-someone-do-such-a-thing-to-these-beautiful-guns.1196838/

I was not aware that there is a large market for rechambered antique guns in Canada.
This goes beyond the typical rechambering's I've seen in the states (a Vetterli rimfire to centerfire conversion is very common since rimfire 41 Swiss is collector-only ammo and impossible to reload for) or ones done en-masse by previous importers (webely's shaved for 45 ACP).

Instead, it looks like some dealers (?) are buying collector grade guns and intentionally rechambering them? Or even worse yet, in some cases, refinishing them.

If you click on that link, there are examples of the French Mle 1873 11mm73 revolver being purposely rechambered to 45 ACP.
I know that in the collector's market in the states, there are some unscrupulous sellers who will tell you the Mle 1873 they're selling was rechambered by the French Resistance during WW2 to add some historical panache. But the majority of us know that there is a large proportion of guns that GI's and collector's in the 1950's rechamberd to 45 ACP for shooting convenience. But that it was understandable since reloading wasn't popular, so it wasn't different from shaving webley's for 45 ACP ball ammo.

But apparently this dealer is bragging that he has had these guns recently professionaly rechambered.
I thought at a minimum sellers would try to pass it off as historically relevant, sort of like how some sellers will make up stories for erroneous markings on WW2 german guns. But apparently he isn't even pretending that it is from the French Resistance, but actually using the fact that it was recently professionaly rechambered as a selling point?

Even more egregious are the gaudy nickel finishes.


Can anyone tell me why intentionally ruining the collector's value on these guns is particularly desireable in Canada, and how big of a market in Canada it is to do this to these collectible artifacts?

To be frank I'm hoping that the upcoming election changes regulations for you guys so that the financial incentive to destroy these historical pieces is eliminated.
Click to expand...

Well, to be quite frank, if you are wishing that kind of garbage on us, please accept my dearest wishes for your pending accident that leaves you being fed by a tube and unable to ever walk again.

In truth, most of the guns that get converted, are pretty much otherwise undesirable and not worth much. Case in point was seeing a not very special condition Colt 1877 Lightning, unsold at $250, while Thunderers were moving fairly briskly at ~$1K. I very nearly bought that Lightning, to strip out the internals, as parts like sears and the delicate springs and linkages are a PITA to make.

Of the very few Colt SAA's I have seen that were converted from Registerable "Restricted" firearms to "Antique" status, no longer Registered, via rebuilds and rechamberings, the best of them would be pushing somewhere between 'sorry', and 'outhouse recovered relic', on down from there. A good friend of mine has a SAA that he played with as a kid, playing Cowboys and Indians in the neighborhood. His folks sent it out and had it chromed. He had the real deal, while the rest had cap guns or worse. Much jealousy! Won't ever shoot again in his lifetime though. Would have been binned long ago though, if it was only all about what the 'collector' wants. Another friend has a SAA that is mostly Italian parts from a donor, grafted on to an original, but very poor and otherwise nearly worthless gun. Now it shoots.

For the most part, the stuff that is getting the 'treatment' is mostly sorry state junk that would not sell well in it's as found condition, but with a coat of plating and some machine work, becomes what you are complaining about. Except, saleable.
 
One other thing to consider is that most of these precious antiques that you seem so worried about people "butchering" would not be around if they fell under restricted/prohibited classification. The Webley, the 1873 Mas, and every Derringer out there would have hade to be turned in for destruction, as they don't meet the minimum barrel length. All of the .32's would have had to be turned in as well.

Maybe there are a few collectors out there, the youngest now being about 58 years old, that might have been able to keep theirs. The ability to keep these old firearms shooting, and in the antique class, has allowed a younger generation to both collect and shoot a part of history. Okay, we get it, you don't approve, but be careful what you wish for. Would you rather they be converted, and enjoyed, or sent to the smelter and melted down.

I compare this to the guy that buys a classic car at the Barret-Jackson auction. Maybe he even overpays to get what he wants. Now, whether he takes it and sticks it in a warehouse somewhere for him and his friends to OOH and AAH over, or he takes it to Counts Kustoms and has it turned into a hot rod is his business. It might not be what purists and collectors might want to see, and I might not agree with it, but again, it's his property to do with as he sees fit.
 
Personally, I can see the restoration of a sewer pipe or parts gun as a service to the antique. Is it as collectable as the same in original condition? Depends how deep your pockets are. Not really into the rechambering of firearms that have antique status for the sake of ammunition availability & believe that really devalues it. That's my opinion & how I'd spend my money...
 
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