Canadian Red Band Home Guard M1917s Question

Yeandle31

Yeandle31

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Hey all,

I am doing some research into the Canadian usage of M1917s as Home Guard rifles.

What are the specs on the red band put around the stock? Was the paint 4" wide? I've seen some rifles with 30-06 marked on the paint. Does anyone have any official documentation on this?

Thanks,
Kevin
 
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Home Guard? Did Canada have one?

Wasn't the RCAF the primary user of these rifles?

Somewhere there has to be a directive regarding marking .30 caliber arms to prevent them being mistaken for .303.
 
My friend has a beauty 1903 Springfield ww1 production with RCAF marked stock. I think they were used by the air force mostly but have no evidence to back that up.
 
The example I have is "C" broad arrow marked, as well as "RCAF" marked. The band is just a tick under 1/2" wide.
 
Not the best photo, only thing I can say is these aren't Lee Enfields.

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tiriaq said:
Home Guard? Did Canada have one?

Wasn't the RCAF the primary user of these rifles?

Somewhere there has to be a directive regarding marking .30 caliber arms to prevent them being mistaken for .303.
Click to expand...

idk about home guard, but they had guys guard the Welland Canal during WW1. Can anyone tell what they're shouldering? View attachment 702071
 
Hi Painkillers. In WW1 the Welland Canal was guarded by the Niagara Falls Home Guard which had private purchased Ross Mk III service rifle. Home Guard of any unit never had bayonets. Other Home Guard units included Essex County (Windsor), TPF (Toronto Police Force), B of M (Bank
of Montreal), and York (Toronto) to name the most common. The soldiers in the pic have long bayonets so I think its safe to assume the rifles are SMLE (with Pat. 07 bayonets) that Canada brought home from WW1. So the photo was probably taken early WW2. JOHN
 
I have a couple. One came from the family of a gent who who was an air raid warden in Delta.

The other is marked KR (Kent Regiment)

Paint is similar but different. Not sure if there was an official instruction re marking of 30-06's but would suspect that there was...the question would be how detailed of an instruction it was.

QkT4Lzy.jpg


mDL8KkP.jpg

oq4WNGK.jpg
 
CMichaud said:
I have a couple. One came from the family of a gent who who was an air raid warden in Delta.

The other is marked KR (Kent Regiment)

Paint is similar but different. Not sure if there was an official instruction re marking of 30-06's but would suspect that there was...the question would be how detailed of an instruction it was.

QkT4Lzy.jpg


mDL8KkP.jpg

oq4WNGK.jpg
Click to expand...
. Pacific Coast Militia Ranger
 
Canada did not have a “Home Guard”. Model of 1917 rifles were issued to:
Training establishments (e.g. Royal Military College)
Guards for Prisoner of War camps
Reserve Army units (e.g. 2nd Bn Seaforth of C)
RCAF
Pacific Coast Militia Rangers
Veterans’ Guard

I am not aware of any Pattern 1914 rifles being issued by Canada other than the few Winchester Patt’14 W (T) or Patt’14 W (F) (possibly) sniper rifles. The presence of the brass butt disc (or wooden plug), volley sights (or removed, but front plate still there) and lack of red band are points to look for to identify Patt’14 in war time photos.
 
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seaforth72 said:
“Painkiller” - Welland Canal Guard used Ross Mk.III as shown in my Grandfather’s photos. He commanded a unit of the Welland Canal Guard.
https://captainstevens.com/genealogy-colin-macgregor-stevens/stevens-genealogy/was-album/
Click to expand...

Thank you. However, as jtaylor pointed out, the bayonets are rather long in the photo I found on the internet.

The photo is definitively WW1, so if these rifles are indeed Ross Mk III's, do they have long and short pattern bayonets? All the Ross bayo's I've seen can't be more than 8"s long. More like a knife when compared to say the LE 17" sword bayo.
 
The red painted ring on mine is 3" wide and runs right up to the front band/bayonet lug. The white painted 30-06 numbers are 1" tall, 30 on the left side and 06 on the right.

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