Cannot Zero at 50M - What To Do

waynewjw

waynewjw

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Only desert in Canada overlooking the Thompson Riv
Ruger Precision w/30 MOA rail
Bushnell Match Pro 6-24x50 Mil 30mm tube 18 mil elevation
Burris XTR Signature rings with 0,5,10 & 20 MOA cants

Logic says rail plus -10 front +20 back and I should be able to zero but I can only get to about 12” above target center. Idea’s? I’ve tried a number of combinations of the inserts and cannot get it down to zero at 50?

I’m thinking a different scope with more elevation adjustment i.e. 25 mil or more.
 
You have the inserts reversed.
To neutralize the +30 rail you need the +20 in the front and the -10 in the rear.
This assumes that the indicated inserts are in the bottom ring.
You can do it the way you had them but the -20 would have to be in the bottom of the rear ring and the +10 in the bottom of the front.
Confusing ...yes?
 
flyr said:
You have the inserts reversed.
To neutralize the +30 rail you need the +20 in the front and the -10 in the rear.
This assumes that the indicated inserts are in the bottom ring.
You can do it the way you had them but the -20 would have to be in the bottom of the rear ring and the +10 in the bottom of the front.
Confusing ...yes?
Click to expand...

Now I'm really confused. On my CZ with 20 rail and -20 front +20 back I'm zero'd at 50 still can turn down for shorter shots and then can reach out to 350m and still have up room left. What you're saying is the opposite. Help?
 
Not sure what your set up is doing.
18 mil adjustment in your scope is roughly 60 moa
Your 30moa rail plus your 30 moa inserts = 60 moa up
That 60moa takes up all the down adjustment your scope is capable of with it bottomed out.
I may be totally wrong though.
JMHO
 
2 rifle setups - one works one doesn’t, at least not so far. CZ457 w/30moa rail, Burris XTR Signature rings -20 front +20 back with Vortex Venom 5-25 x 56 w/34mm tube 25mil elevation. This setup zero’s at 50 with clicks left to lower for closer shots and clicks up out to 350m and clicks left. works great.

The 2nd rifle is a Ruger Precision Rimfire with 30moa rail, Burris XTR Signature rings and scope is 6-24 x 50 w/30mm tube 18mil elevation. I started with -10 front +20 back and the rifle shoots 7” high and then tried a few other combo’s all with minus front and positive back and still couldn’t get down low enough for 50 zero.

Using Strelok Pro with all the correct data to zero and beyond.

What am I missing flyr?
 
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The bullet is crossing line of sight before your target. You need to move the front of the scope up, so put the positive at the front, negative at the back.

Also, there is only so much room inside the ring, so remember not to put both of any insert in the same ring. Fir example if you put both +20s in your front ring, you've actually just made the rings a little smaller. Both -20s would make the ring larger. When you torque it down the center of the ring stays centered.. you're not changing anything. If you have the +20 on the bottom of the front ring, you need the -20 on the top, this moves the center of the rings.
 
Something else, if you do have 60moa in your scope, divide that in half, gives you 30 minutes as the point where n theory your barrel and scope are parallel so the 30 minute rail moves your aim/impact the 30 minutes, right to the edge of your scopes travel.

So with the zero inserts you MIGHT just get it to zero, but you're probably going to have to use the burris inserts to negate some of the rail.

Your other rifle works because it's scope has more travel.

Also I should add, it's late, I may have figured something incorrectly, but I think I've got it all worked out properly. Give it a try with zeros, see if it's close and go from there.
 
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Your set up that works:
30 moa rail + 40 moa inserts = 70moa up
Your scope has 25 mil adjust = about 85 moa
You have a possible 15moa spare down with this set up.
Sorry, best I can do.
 
flyr said:
Your set up that works:
30 moa rail + 40 moa inserts = 70moa up
Your scope has 25 mil adjust = about 85 moa
You have a possible 15moa spare down with this set up.
Sorry, best I can do.
Click to expand...

Thx flyr. The setup I have issue with is the Ruger Precision where the scope has only 18mil adjustment. I’m thinking the scope doesn’t have enough elevation adjustment to work. Am I wrong in my assessment?
 
waynewjw said:
Thx flyr. The setup I have issue with is the Ruger Precision where the scope has only 18mil adjustment. I’m thinking the scope doesn’t have enough elevation adjustment to work. Am I wrong in my assessment?
Click to expand...

I think you are correct, not enough adjustment available.
 
Another factor that effects things is distance between ring centers. I believe the Burris info uses 4 inches between centers. The closer the rings are together, the more effect the inserts have. The further apart the rings are, the less effect the inserts have.
 
Brad243 said:
I went looking for a picture to make this easier, and found this site which explains it.

https://www.murphyprecision.com/Page/What-is-moa

You have to sort of tilt your head as the green bit shows your scope and should be horizontal to make it easier, but your situation is the third picture where you can't get point of impact down to point of aim.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brad, the article makes mostly sense. I need to read it a few times to get it. As I told flyr I think I don’t have enough mil adjustment on the scope on the Ruger at 18mil. My CZ with Venom has 25mil and that works just great.
 
You could use the burris rings to negate some of rail, get it zeroed at 50, and just use your reticle to hild over when you shoot to 350. Use what you've got and not need to buy anything else, unless you 1)routinely shoot to 350 or and 2)want to be able to dial all the way there.
 
Brad243 said:
You could use the burris rings to negate some of rail, get it zeroed at 50, and just use your reticle to hild over when you shoot to 350. Use what you've got and not need to buy anything else, unless you 1)routinely shoot to 350 or and 2)want to be able to dial all the way there.
Click to expand...

If I follow your recommendation what inserts would I install front and back rings?
 
Well, if m following your previous post.. you have a 30 moa rail, and you're adding another 30 moa with the rings, and shooting 7 inches high at 50 (which is 14moa)

So you have 60, and you're 14 too much, meaning you want to aim for around 45 moa as the maximum cant you can have. The 30 is built into the rail, and to keep it simple I only want to adjust one ring, so im going to say:

Zeros on the back ring, -10 on the bottom of the front, and +10 on the top of the front.

Give that a try. If you do get it sighted at 50, see how much further under point of aim you can hit. That will let you know if you're maxed out, or if you can put some more cant into it. If you can't get zeroed at 50, hopefully you're closer and then we'll know if we're going in the right direction.
 
Brad243 said:
Well, if m following your previous post.. you have a 30 moa rail, and you're adding another 30 moa with the rings, and shooting 7 inches high at 50 (which is 14moa)

So you have 60, and you're 14 too much, meaning you want to aim for around 45 moa as the maximum cant you can have. The 30 is built into the rail, and to keep it simple I only want to adjust one ring, so im going to say:

Zeros on the back ring, -10 on the bottom of the front, and +10 on the top of the front.

Give that a try. If you do get it sighted at 50, see how much further under point of aim you can hit. That will let you know if you're maxed out, or if you can put some more cant into it. If you can't get zeroed at 50, hopefully you're closer and then we'll know if we're going in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brad I will setup the scope today and take it out tomorrow to the range to see what results I get.
 
I was expecting a different set up before I grabbed the pen and the paper, so im hoping I got it all right (thats why I tried to show my work in case someone wanted to correct me).

I hope its right, let us know what happens tomorrow.
 
So a new issue. I went to setup the rings as per Brad's info and discovered a black pce. of material inside the new scope so I've sent it back to the mfg. They have offered and I've accepted an upgrade. 3.5-21x50 - 34mm tube and 32mil elevation adjustment. So the upgrade scope likely won't be in my hands for 2 weeks perhaps more. I now have to figure out which Burris XTR Signature 34mm rings will work on my Ruger - the 1" high or the 1 1/2" high. Burris is recommending the 1.5" high. Once received I will have much larger windage so with the 30MOA rail on the rifle, I'm thinking -20front and +20back should be the solution. Do you guys concur?
 
My gut is telling me that would be too much.

32mil is 110 moa. In a perfect world your scope and your barrel are parallel, so you sight dead center of your scope. Yor scope has 110 moa of adjustment, so has 55 up and 55 down. So the most you can angle it and still stay within the scope is going to be around 55moa. Your scope base is 30 already, so I would just go with either the +20 on the back OR the -20 on the front. If you do both you're adding 20+20+30=70, when your max is should be around 55.

Also, something else to consider, scopes tend to work better in the center of adjustment. Both the adjustment and the glass in your scope tends to be better in the middle than on the edges. So if you set up to max out your scope so you can dial to.. well like 500 yards?.. then when you shoot at 50 you're going to be right on the edge, instead of using the better center of the glass.

If I were setting it up.. I would go with the zero inserts. Then you'd have half of your scope (55moa) plus the rail (30moa) for a total of 85 moa, which should let you dial to around 425 yards. This also would keep 25 moa above your zero distance, keeping you away from the extremes of the scope (better glass, better function) when shooting the shorter distances.
 
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