the_snowman1
Regular
- Location
- winnipeg manitoba
Can anyone tell me why they are not that popular of a milsurp there's lots around but nobody is really into them
carcano rifle
- Thread starter the_snowman1
- Start date
Mausers, Enfields, Mosins, are all just a lot better known, IMHO.
Carcanos were quite popular in the US in the 50s and early 60s when tons were coming through on the surplus market, and the ammo was cheap and available. Was thought of as a pretty reasonable deer rifle.
The association with Oswald really put a tamper on that.
Also, the cartridge isn't super common to find anymore. It's available, just not as common as some of the other MilSurps.
I haven't read much bad about them, in terms of accuracy/performance. Some people seem to quite like them. When it comes down to it, I think it's mostly a matter of people topping up their WWII collections with the big players first, and then the Carcanos, Lebels, etc. kind of fall into the "filler" material once people have the other stuff. Easy to get distracted by other shiny toys along the way to filling out the collection.
Personally, they're on my radar, because I want to build out a decent collection of WWII / "Two War" battle rifles, but not super high on the list of priorities.
As far as not being "really good" guns. You need a bit more experience. They do take an odd sized bullet and the cartridges are not usually available at Cdn Tire.
They are oddities and you either like them or you don't.
They are also tough as hell, accurate and in the right hands, made a very commendable show of themselves on battlefields all over Africa and Europe. You can bet the people on the receiving end thought they were plenty good.
Another thing, they are very pleasant to shoot and the sights on them, although rudimentary, leave little to be desired.
Most people just don't know enough about the rifles t appreciate them. There was a time when K98 Mausers were cheap for the same reasons. Same goes for the Swiss family of rifles. Once they came over in quantity, people realized what gems they really are.
Another under appreciated rifle in its time was the Ross. Thirty years ago you couldn't give one away. Now, you need to take out a second mortgage to pick up a nice example.
The time of the Carcano is coming. Arisakas languished for years. Some BS about them not being well made or strong enough held them back.
Carcanos are very strong. The only reason the Italians fed it such a moderate cartridge is because they chose to. It was easier on the men and the rifles and promoted confidence in the shooter when it didn't kick the crap out of him from the prone position.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
Carcanos are well designed rifles more than capable for the round they shoot. They also incorporated many unique and well thought out design features that are not seen on most rifles (the first ones had gain rifling which means the rifling started slow and got tighter the farther the bullet travels down the barrel, it also uses a version of the Mannlicher style clips which make reloading fast and extremely reliable).
Some people claim they are crappy rifles, these also tend to be the people that say Soviet manufactured firearms are junk (for example my dad was that way until he used my SKS, now he owns one).
Some people claim they are crappy rifles, these also tend to be the people that say Soviet manufactured firearms are junk (for example my dad was that way until he used my SKS, now he owns one).
Think sentences and punctuation.
There are lots of Carcano collectors out there. Just not many Carcano shooters. Little commercial ammo is available and what is around is expensive. There's never been much, if any, milsurp ammo either. Mind you, the same is true about .30-06 in Canada.
Oswald had nothing to do with it. The U.S. GCA of 1968 did though. Lot of really stupid stuff got added to that idiocy.
There are lots of Carcano collectors out there. Just not many Carcano shooters. Little commercial ammo is available and what is around is expensive. There's never been much, if any, milsurp ammo either. Mind you, the same is true about .30-06 in Canada.
Oswald had nothing to do with it. The U.S. GCA of 1968 did though. Lot of really stupid stuff got added to that idiocy.
my personal take on it.
1. I have held dozens upon dozens, I have only held one rifle that had good wood.
2. they are chambered in obsolete cartridges with non standard bore diameters so they are horrible to try to keep fed.
3. they require an en bloc clips to work as more than a single shot.
1. I have held dozens upon dozens, I have only held one rifle that had good wood.
2. they are chambered in obsolete cartridges with non standard bore diameters so they are horrible to try to keep fed.
3. they require an en bloc clips to work as more than a single shot.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
1. Having good wood is more to due to the usage of the rifle rather than the original quality.
2. Yes they are chambered in obsolete cartridges as are most milsurp rifles, the cartridges were not obsolete when designed and the rifles were issued so it is a moot point. Also is a bit difficult to keep fed but with Privi Partizan making ammo for them now it is much easier to acquire, use and reload for.
3. The enbloc clips are the greatest part of the design as it makes reloading extremely fast (I am convinced more rifles should have used it), getting some does take some effort but after you have your good to go.
not really. PRVI uses standard .264 bullets while Carcanos are the only 6.5s that use a .268 bullet. a persona can't expect a great deal of accuracy from PRVI. only one company that I know of makes a .268 and that's hornady and you only have 1 option, 160gr round nose. the wood I speak of has to do with how they've been kept rather than used. I don't describe dings and dents as poor wood, I count cracks, splits, chips, bleaching, drying, and rot as poor wood and I have only held one out of dozens which did not fit one of those "prro wood" features.
aside from being a 6 round mag over the standard 5 rounds that most others used, the enbloc on a carcano is no faster than a stripper clip from a mosin nagant, enfield, springfield, mauser, or arisaka. the hole in the bottom of the magazine is also a place screaming for dirt and rocks to occupy.
aside from being a 6 round mag over the standard 5 rounds that most others used, the enbloc on a carcano is no faster than a stripper clip from a mosin nagant, enfield, springfield, mauser, or arisaka. the hole in the bottom of the magazine is also a place screaming for dirt and rocks to occupy.
interesting... Canada must be a very different ball game from the US. down here 30-06 is still the best selling hunting cartridge for about the 75th year running and every gun coming from the CMP either has serviceable USGI wood or is refitted with a brand new stock.
You might be surprised at the accuracy you can get with .264 bullets as the milsurp ammo used .266 bullets.
I presently own six carcanos, two vetterli vitali conversions to 6.5, an AOI M95, and a Italian captured and re-issued M95. Only the AOI M95 has what I would term as "bad wood" followed by my oldest Vetterli.
To each their own though, that just means another good crack at a carcano for me
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To each their own though, that just means another good crack at a carcano for me
.I think Prvi keeps the .264 diameter as Hornady has noted issues with their .268 bullets in the older rifles like the M1891s and their gain twist rifling. The other probable concern is the use of Prvi ammo in 6.5 Vetterli-Vitali conversions by some potential shooters. There is quite a bit about the Hornady bullets and people's experiences with them on various forums.
I reload an shoot cast loads with M91 and M41 Carcanos.NOE .269 cast works really well in both and produce some amazing groups.
One thing-with powders I'm using (Red-Dot and 2400) use of WW alloy or anything harder was pointless.I use range scrap of BHN about 5-7 i think.
GC of course is mandatory with NOE.I just got Lee CM mold and in the summer I will cut it down to PB of about 140Gr and see what I can do with that.
Come to think of it maybe one day I'll get 6.5 Vetterli just for fun
One thing-with powders I'm using (Red-Dot and 2400) use of WW alloy or anything harder was pointless.I use range scrap of BHN about 5-7 i think.
GC of course is mandatory with NOE.I just got Lee CM mold and in the summer I will cut it down to PB of about 140Gr and see what I can do with that.
Come to think of it maybe one day I'll get 6.5 Vetterli just for fun
.30-06 is very popular here for hunting up here. Probably not as popular as .303 British, as owning a Lee Enfield is pretty much a Canadian tradition, but it's still very widespread. The local gunshop or hardware store, if it sells ammo, will often have at least two or three varieties of .30-06 for sale.
On topic, I'd very much like to own a Carcano someday. They're very tough, soft-shooting, pack a good enough punch for most hunting, and if fed the right bullets can be very accurate. I love 6.5 guns and the design of the Carcano is pretty awesome, honestly. A lot of people have biases towards them for various reasons, but the Italian troops who carried them liked them, and they've been used by civilians to do all kinds of things since the 50's with little trouble.
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Original Carcano military ammunition was loaded with a very fast-burning double-based powder of the Ballistite type, called in Italy SOLENITE.
The ammo also had a FLAT-based bullet of .266" diameter and 163 grains weight.
I got tired of my Carbine shooting 2-foot groups and used the brain for a short time. It still worked. Then I loaded up a batch of Carcano ammo with Remington 140-grain FLATbase spitzer bullets and 30 grains of IMR-4198 (VERY fast, this load is NOT in any book). Carbine groups puckered up and started to get rather small. I then tried the same ammo in a Model 41.... and the test group came out at ONE MOA. There are other people on this board now using this load, and it seems to work for them. Recoil and muzzle-blast are very little, accuracy is high. No signs of high pressure. Seems to work for me, anyway.
I think part of the accuracy comes from the swift kick on the back end which is sustained by that FLATbased bullet. Boat-tails do not expand and seal the bore properly because they are supported all around by the powder-gas column. A FLATbased bullet WILL seal the bore if kicked hard enough because lead is PLASTIC at high pressures, there is nowhere for the pressure to hit except on that flat surface.... and the nice, soft Remington 140s expand very nicely. This is why Carcanos, Lee-Enfields and any other rifle with a less-than-perfect bore should be shot with a FLAT-based bullet.
Hope this helps.
The ammo also had a FLAT-based bullet of .266" diameter and 163 grains weight.
I got tired of my Carbine shooting 2-foot groups and used the brain for a short time. It still worked. Then I loaded up a batch of Carcano ammo with Remington 140-grain FLATbase spitzer bullets and 30 grains of IMR-4198 (VERY fast, this load is NOT in any book). Carbine groups puckered up and started to get rather small. I then tried the same ammo in a Model 41.... and the test group came out at ONE MOA. There are other people on this board now using this load, and it seems to work for them. Recoil and muzzle-blast are very little, accuracy is high. No signs of high pressure. Seems to work for me, anyway.
I think part of the accuracy comes from the swift kick on the back end which is sustained by that FLATbased bullet. Boat-tails do not expand and seal the bore properly because they are supported all around by the powder-gas column. A FLATbased bullet WILL seal the bore if kicked hard enough because lead is PLASTIC at high pressures, there is nowhere for the pressure to hit except on that flat surface.... and the nice, soft Remington 140s expand very nicely. This is why Carcanos, Lee-Enfields and any other rifle with a less-than-perfect bore should be shot with a FLAT-based bullet.
Hope this helps.
