Case Annealling

Boomer

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Does anyone have experience with neck annealling? I thought I would give it a try, and found 2 methods to follow. The method most often encountered is that you stand a number of cases in a pan of water heat the necks then knock the cases over. The other method is to hold the head of the case in your fingers while heating the neck, turning the case quickly for even heating, then dunking the case in water before you burn your fingers.

I decided from the outset to try the latter, and I managed not to blister my fingers - or soften the case heads. I began with 50 twice fired .375 Ultra cases (Remington) some of which were neck turned. The first problem I encounterd was that if I directed the flame from the torch directly on the neck of the case, the turned necks would melt, or perforate. I began then to heat on the shoulder, and when the case neck glowed red I dunked it in a container if water - about a litre. After 25 cases were annealled the water had warmed up considerably so I changed the water for the remaining cases.

In the coarse of things I dropped one case which hit the concrete floor on the case mouth, flattening the neck. I immediately ran the case through the resizer to true it up and the neck crushed. Upon further examination I discovered that the case mouths could be easily dented with pressure from my thumb nail.

Obviously I got the necks too soft, and I need to be able to read the colour better when I am heatiing them. I hope I can load boat-tails in these cases, but I doubt if I could load flat base bullets without damage until they have been fired and resized at least once.

An interesting article in the A-Square manual concerning work hardening of case necks, suggests that as a cartridge is fired and resized a number of times that the work hardened neck increases bullet pull and therefore increases pressure. They provide a table showing this phenomenum with .30/06 cases being repeatedly resized and fired and the increase in velocity and pressure as they go. It further advises that cases be annealled after every second firing. In due coarse I intend to conduct a similar experiment to see if their findings stand up.

If you have annealled cartridge cases what have your experiences been?
 
I use the "second" method. In a dark room, turn the case back and forth in the flame with your thumb and finger until you just see a hint of red. The flame should be "aimed" not at the neck, but just below it at the fat part of the cartidge. That way, the heat will be more concentrated at the area that needs the most heat, and plenty will be conducted to the smaller neck area. I drop the cartridges into the drink well before they are too hot to handle.

You are using way too much heat by the sounds of it.
 
Andy said:
I use the "second" method. In a dark room, turn the case back and forth in the flame with your thumb and finger until you just see a hint of red. The flame should be "aimed" not at the neck, but just below it at the fat part of the cartidge. That way, the heat will be more concentrated at the area that needs the most heat, and plenty will be conducted to the smaller neck area. I drop the cartridges into the drink well before they are too hot to handle.

You are using way too much heat by the sounds of it.

X2. With 22/250 cases my fingers get pretty hot as the neck turns red.

BTW. You can also watch the flame,as it will change color just as the neck starts to turn red. A dark room helps alot.
 
"Oxy-Acetylene" is too hot and difficult to control.....

Use a "Air-Natural Gas" or "Propane" torch....

Better to use a tip that will produce a brush type flame rather than a pin-point type flame.....

Direct the flame at the angle junction of neck and shoulder.....

Heating to a dark red in a slightly darkened room will give a dead-soft neck-shoulder.....

Heating till a rainbow colour change is seen in daylight (before red), differing degrees of softening can be achieved.....

Practice and gained experience are the best teachers for this job......

I use the "cases standing vertical in a pan holding about an inch of cold water, and tip the cases over when hot" method for most rifle cases, I don't usually bother messing with pistol cases.....

A degree of softening can also be achieved by holding the case in the fingers and plunging the case-neck into a melting-pot full of molten bullet metal for a couple seconds and then flicking the case into a bucket of cold water....

Quenching in cold water does not harden brass or copper.....

My 2 cents..... :wink:
 
I have annealed in a dim room too. That way I could esaily see how hot I was getting my cases. Sadly though, the second method deosn't work well for all cases. With short cases (.223 to 7.62x25mm) I am forced to hold the cases up with a thin rod in the primer pocket, and slowly rotate in the flame. Then it's just a quick flick into cold water.
 
"...got the necks too soft..." No you didn't. Any case will have its case mouth bent if it hits the floor. No big deal. Just open it with needle nosed pliers and resize.
The pan of water method(filled to just below the case shoulder) with a propane torch is the best method. However, you don't need to heat the necks red hot. Just enough to see the colour of the brass change and tip 'em over.
"...changed the water..." You don't need to do that either.
"...necks would melt, or perforate..." Put the phazer away. If the case is melting the torch is too hot.
 
The big advantage of the water in the pan method, is that it's not possible for the case HEAD to anneal.....

same for holding the head in your fingers, if it gets too hot you'll tend to drop it, preferably in cold water......

THE CASE HEAD MUST NOT BE SOFTENED....... :shock:
 
sunray said:
"...got the necks too soft..." No you didn't. Any case will have its case mouth bent if it hits the floor. No big deal. Just open it with needle nosed pliers and resize.
The pan of water method(filled to just below the case shoulder) with a propane torch is the best method. However, you don't need to heat the necks red hot. Just enough to see the colour of the brass change and tip 'em over.
"...changed the water..." You don't need to do that either.
"...necks would melt, or perforate..." Put the phazer away. If the case is melting the torch is too hot.

Sunray -

The case mouth was bent not much more than you see with new brass in a bulk bag, but when I ran it up to the expander ball it squashed. In any case, the necks must loose some of their softness over time - like heat treating cast bullets in an oven - because today the case mouths were plyable but did not squash under thumb pressure like they did immediately after annealling them yesterday. Only one neck perforated, and as I said that was a case with a turned neck.

Thanks for everryone's response, looks like I'll have to turn down the lights next time and pay better attention to the colour.
 
No real problem if you get 'em a bit soft; brass work-hardens fairly quickly. I overannealed a batch of .303s a while back, just lubed the necks inside and out and ran 'em into and out of the dies 3 or 4 times......... hardened them up. every time they are used, they get a little harder.
Still, try to be careful when flame-annealing. It IS possible to damage the brass itself if you use 'way too much heat.
Still, the "hold 'em and flame 'em" method works good for small batches, but a big sinkful of ice-cold water is the only way if you have several hundred to do at once.
 
You have to be very careful when annnealing cases as to not heat them to much or they will get to soft and be ruined. A lot of BR shooters that take the time to anneal will use a tempil stick to mark the necks with. They heat with a propane torch until the mark melts and then dunk in a pan of cold water. It is great if you can use a cordless or electric drill to rotate the case when heating. Some do it in low light conditions and heat the shoulder area at the halfway point just untill you begin to see a slight red glow and then dunk it in a pan of cold water. There are even some that use a lead pot. They supposedly dunk the case in motor oil submerge the case just enough to cover the shoulder in the lead pot until it gets warm to the touch then dunk in cold water and clean. I have used he low light method and believe it worked quite well for my 22-250 cases. There are also annealing tools out on the market to help distribute the heat of the torch more evenly around the shoulder. Unless money is an issue for you one is better off to buy new brass instead of annealing it. Less work and more time shooting. From what I understand and have seen from my 22-250 I think cases that may require annealing more so than others are those that have a similar shape as the 22-250. A case that the sides have a continuous taper from the web to the neck. They tend to have more brass flow and require a lot of working of the brass. I mean FL resizing almost everytime to fit the chamber thus fatiguing the case by overworking it. If one bumps the shoulder back to far when resizing this also contributes to the life of the case being shortened.

Just some of my opinions that I have picked up from others out there.


Calvin
 
I used the 'molten lead' anealing method when I was making 6.5x55 cases out of .270 and .30-'06 brass.
First dip the case neck/shoulder into a bowl of chalk dust, like for use in a chalkline, that stops the lead from soldering on. I tried oil but it was too smokey and stinky. And I used fairly pure lead, as it has a higher melting temp than bullet metal.
 
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