cast 180gr for 7.62x39

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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is the 180s just too much for the 7.62x39 for a plinker to use up all of these 180gr Cast 303 things i got there??

and they are a typical FN cast with lube rings and cups, but whatta ya rekon about cutting a few shorter in the lube grooves , to plink inthe 7.62????

do ya need photos to understand what im on about :)
 
What cast 303 bullet ??

you need to find out if they will chamber = yes or no

Max mag length minus a bit and make up a dummy round

will it chamber / extract with out pulling the bullet out

Will it chamber with finger pressure and extract ?
 
I loaded a 180gr cast in a 7.62x39 for my cz527. Didn’t find it shot well enough to pursue. Make sure you have enough chamber space for the projectile not to be touching the lands. Also I used a slower powder than standard for 7.62x39. I wouldn’t recommend a load for a semi auto though.
 
I played with this extensively but found between my M85 and SKS I couldnt match the accuracy of the higher velocity 123gr standard ammo. The twist rate in both the M85 and SKS should be able to handle 180 gr so I can’t say why I couldn’t get them to stabilize. Seemed to chamber ok too but just shot poorly.

Id say it’s worth a try and see for yourself.
 
MuthaFunk said:
I played with this extensively but found between my M85 and SKS I couldnt match the accuracy of the higher velocity 123gr standard ammo. The twist rate in both the M85 and SKS should be able to handle 180 gr so I can’t say why I couldn’t get them to stabilize. Seemed to chamber ok too but just shot poorly.

Id say it’s worth a try and see for yourself.
Click to expand...

yeah roger that, thanks!
iv got h4895 here for other cals an that seems to be suitable for cast too. i can only try!
thanks
 
just having some fun said:
What cast 303 bullet ??

you need to find out if they will chamber = yes or no

Max mag length minus a bit and make up a dummy round

will it chamber / extract with out pulling the bullet out

Will it chamber with finger pressure and extract ?
Click to expand...

its an australian company, hawksbury river bullet company... they did me some 311s but coated 3 times to bring them up to like 313... i tried to get them to shoot in that ruger 1 of mine.... as a bloke says above , it shot poorly an wasnt worth persuing... an i cbf.

for this little adventure the gun wont really need to shoot acurate - we will use it all as plink an practise to warm him up into the jacketed hunting rounds- bit more pepper in thos too etc.
 
I've loaded both cast, powder coated and jacketed bullets up to 200 grains out of my Howa 1500 and a custom 98 Mauser.

MothaFunk said that the twist rate in a couple of firearms should handle 180 grain bullets.

I will disagree with that assessment.

The twist rate is fast enough, IF you can push the bullets fast enough to get enough rpms to stabilize them.

I never could get good results with most bullet weights over 150 grains.

I did get some good results with some 165 grain .312 hard cast lead, powder coated bullets but the mould was borrowed and I had to return it. The fellow was using the bullets cast from this custom mould in a vintage 30-30 and got very good results.

The vintage 30-30 was an old pre WWI Model 94 Winchester with a .3095 in bore and it wouldn't shoot factory 30 cal bullets well.

The issue with the 7.62x39 case and heavier bullets is mostly just a lack of powder capacity to provide enough velocity to get them to stabilize properly.

The Howa 1500 detachable magazine will allow me to load 150 grain cast or jacketed bullets, with flat bases to high enough velocities to be able to stabilize consistently, even though I have to seat those bullets deep into the case, below the neck.

I have a load for that rifle, which is very strong, using H322 ball powder over CCI 250 magnum primers and Speer Hot Core 150 round nose, flat base bullets.

29.5grns H322 over CCI250, under 150 Speer RNSP for 2250fps from the Howa.

I had a load developed for the 165 grain powder coated cast bullets for the 98 Mauser conversion but gave it to the fellow who bought the rifle a few years ago.

It used W748 and Rel 15 and some old Rel 11 I had on hand.

The length of the Mauser magazine allowed me to seat the bullets with appx 2/3 caliber of seating depth, a bare minimum for proper neck tension, without crimping or touching the leade.

With the 200 grain bullets, which were also flat base spire points with exposed lead bases, I went with powder as fast as Rel7, which was just to fast and as slow as W760, which was obviously to slow.

The barrel was a 1-10 twist .3075 bore Shilen take off cut to 23 inches. I used readily available .3075-.308 bullets from 130 to 200 grains to work up loads with this rifle.

It shot flat base bullets up to 180 grain very well, with a compressed load of H335 and 150 grain bullets with a compressed load of Rel7

I don't recall the resulting velocities but the rifle was going to be used by its present owner for shots and bears and deer, when they wandered into his back field in the fall, where ranges weren't beyond 100 yards.

I haven't heard from him since he bought the rifle, other than he seems to be eating plenty of venison and bear burgers.

After all was said and done, the 180 RNFB were the heaviest bullets I could push fast enough to stabilize consistently for acceptable accuracy.

WhelanLad, you don't mention what rifle you're shooting. I'm guessing a Yugo Mini Mauser??

Those little rifles are very strong and should be able to handle higher pressures than the SKS easily.

H4895 is just to bulky to get enough powder into the case and if I'm close on the rifle type, the magazine length will inhibit the case volume available to you.

Try a ball or Rel type powder if it's available to you.
 
I tried the Lyman 205 gr bullet in my CZ carbine and SKS as above accuracy wasn’t good or tumbling. I believe you just can’t get enough powder in the to push them fast enough for good accuracy. I use a 160 gr pointed cast bullet which works excellent. I also use this bullet in my 303’s and Mosin’s. Powder capacity is the down fall of the 7.62x39 case. You just can’t put enough powder in to get the proper speed to stabilize the heavier bullets.
 
You didn't mention the firearm in which you'll be shooting it, and you can't assume we all know it's an SKS for example, as there are quite a few non-SKS rifles in 7.62X39.

In 7.62X39, I've used jacketed and cast bullets weighing: 123 gr; 150 gr; 165 gr; 174 gr; 230 gr; and 247 gr, and all were shot in a Baikal Single Shot, so there was no need to be concerned about OAL or cycling the action.

I've shot the 247 gr NOE "Whisper" with these two loads:

4.0 grs Red Dot - 725 fps; and
20.0 grs H322 - 1350 fps.

and they were approaching max pressure, and are perfectly safe in any bullet weight less than 247 grs.

Often there is published data for a cartridge with similar same bore diameters and case capacities that can be used, but nothing really compares to the 7.62X39 for heavy bullets. The 30 BR would be a good guide, but published loads are all for light bullets. The 300 Whisper and 300 Blackout have many published loads for heavy bullets, but their case capacity is about 24.0 grs while the 7.62X39 is about 35.0 grs. If 300 Blackout Max Loads were used for example, they would be well below 7.62X39 Min Loads, but could serve as a "sanity check". For example, I used 20.0 grs of H322 with a 247 gr bullet as a Max Load and for the 300 Blackout, they use 13.0 grs as a Max for a 190 gr bullet at 18K psi. 13.0 grs with that bullet in a 7.62X39 would likely be a squib as pressure would be about 10K psi.


 
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I dont subscribe to the notion you have to get all bullets "fast enough" to stabilize.

I run cast bullets in Mosins, Enfields, Win 94's and more from 1600 - 2250 with great accuracy. It's about getting the proper bullet size and hardness to acheive obturation of the bullet into the rifling. There's plenty of other factors but those are the biggest in my experience.

Ed Harris' "The Load" is 13 gr of Red Dot in any 308, 7.62x54r, 7.5X55, 303 Brit sized case and 180 gr bullet. I bet this load barely hits 1500 fps. Yet, it's accuracy is well regarded by many bullet casters over decades of experience.
 
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Twist Rate is by far the biggest factor in stabilizing a bullet - MV only comes into effect where Twist Rate is marginal. A 1:10 twist should be adequate for most 30 Cal bullets weighing up to 220 grs. A 1:10 twist can stabilize heavier bullets as long as their length is not excessive. Other factors that can affect bullet stability are its fit in the bore (bullets being too small in diameter) and muzzle damage.

Concerning loads for a 180 gr bullet in 7.62X39, I've used:

18.0 grs of H4227 for 1550 fps;
24.0 grs of H322 for 1800 fps; and
26.0 grs of H4895 for 1750 fps.

I considered these all Max loads. Your results will vary.

I didn't use it with that bullet, but I found fast pistol powders to be more consistent and more accurate, although with a much lower MV. If I was to try Red Dot with a 180 gr bullet, I'd work in the 4.0-10.0 gr range.
 
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