Cast bullets for trapdoor rifle and carbine

Ol' Smokey

Ol' Smokey

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I recently acquired these, and haven't had a chance to shoot them.

I have cast bullets for my Sharps clone, but am between properties and won't be able to cast before the snow flies.

Anyone know of a source in Canada for appropriate cast bullets for these two?

I would like to duplicate the original government loads for both of them.

I know the rifle was supplied with a 500 grain bullet, and the carbine with an approximately 400 grain.

I tried contacting a Canadian supplier of cast bullets, but received no reply, and his website has disappeared - word is that he is out of that business. He is also a member here.

Sooo, any other sources?

Any suggestions for appropriate bullet moulds?
 
There's a company called "the bullet barn" that makes cast boolits. I haven't tried them before, so not sure on the quality of them. I'm sure there are enough guys on here who cast themselves that might be able to sell you some.
 
saskgunowner101 said:
There's a company called "the bullet barn" that makes cast boolits. I haven't tried them before, so not sure on the quality of them. I'm sure there are enough guys on here who cast themselves that might be able to sell you some.
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Excellent! Thank you , I somehow missed that site on my internet search.

They have a 405 grain RN FP with either single or triple lube groove. I'm guessing I should go for the latter.

I already have a supply of Postell, so the 500 grainers will likely be something I will cast when I can.
 
I have a couple of Lee molds that seem to work fine, one for 405's and the other for 500's. The 500 grain boolit takes a gas check (although I haven't used gas checks yet) so it's not period correct, not that I worry about it too much. You can recover the cost of the molds in no time at all if you go that route.:p
 
Looked again at their bullet description - it is a bevelled base.

Some experts claim that only hollow base bullets shoot well out of a trapdoor.

Anyone here have experience otherwise?

Indeed, the long term solution is to buy the appropriate moulds - if they are available.
 
The Lyman 457193 mold is the one I have been using since the 1970's. Been shooting trapdoors with black powder in cartridge rifle matches. Don't waste time with hollow base bullets, bevel based bullets, gas check bullets or paper patched bullets...they don't work!!!! There are guys who will blow sunshine up your butt over how wonderful all of the above and the heavy bullets are. I have seen these guys on the range and they sit there scratching their head wondering why they are getting keyholes on the target at 50 yards.
For nearly 40 years and several dozen shooting awards for cartridge rifle matches from all over Alberta, Saskatchewan and Montana a very simple and proven formula was developed that works.
Simple plan here.
-Have the trapdoor inspected by a "competent" gunsmith to ensure it is safe to use.
-Cast a Lyman 475193 with wheel weights, should come out of the mold at around 0.459 to 0.461...DO NOT size below 0.459!!!! If you can retain a 0.459 to 0.461 diameter this is optimal for the trapdoor.
-Acquire a supply of Ox-yoke 45 caliber "Wonderwads" (Track of the Wolf should have them)...VERY IMPORTANT COMPONENT!!!
-Start with regular large rifle primers...don't waste time with "magnum" primers...they don't work!!!
-After prepping the case for loading, charge with 54 to 55 grains of FFg...we have been using GOEX for decades, Curtis and Harvey FFG was no good. No need for a drop tube as it does not help at all!!!
-Place the wonder wad under the bullet, then seat with a light crimp. You do not want to crush crimp the case as you would if the round was being used in a lever gun. The wad protects the base of the bullet and prevents gas cutting on the base.
-The bullet should be seated so that the first driving band after the nose is just visible, the first grease groove will be inside the case.
-When firing, clean after every shot with the fired case in the chamber, using a wet patch then a dry patch.
This should work well for you as it has for me.
 
Alonzo that is a tremendous wealth of information, thank you. I am curious have you ever tried to work up a useful smokeless load?
 
apu said:
Alonzo that is a tremendous wealth of information, thank you. I am curious have you ever tried to work up a useful smokeless load?
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As a matter of fact I have. The old Trapdoor had a very strong appetite for Shiloh Sharps, and would regularly feed on them.
What I started out with was SR4759 with the same bullet combination mentioned earlier, I woudl cut a 1 inch square of dacron and put that in the case prior to seating the bullet. The last load I used was Trail Boss...I ran out of SR4759 and had some T/Boss which did not work out in the 44-40. This load was a bit lighter though launched the bullet at a good pace that shot nearly identical to the SR load.
Sold the Sharps Eater just recently.
I do have a 38-55 Trapdoor that I built about 20 years ago. It started as a half stock Hawken Gemmer style trapdoor, with ramrod and all. I fitted a Lyman tang peep sight to it, which was designed for the Savage 99...it was mounted to the extended tang of the trapdoor action. It shot incredible group at 50 and 100 yards, though over the course of 5 shot string it would cut three shots in one hole then the last two shots woudl print 3/4 inch above, both touching. This was consistent to the point that I could alter the sight picture ever so slightly and cut a ragged single hole with 5 shots. I removed the ramrod, ferrules and rib, then tried again. Five shots would group consistently under an inch at 50 yards, with a nice even group. The load was black powder with a Lyman (can't recall the mold #) cast wheel weight sized at 0.379 with 36 caliber Ox-Yoke Wonder-Wad. I still this trapdoor as it was one which I built.
Cheers
 
I use 13. grns of Trail Boss behind a 405 grn .459 cast bullet in many of my trap doors ,Only one of my rifles (1878 target model) do I cast the 500 grn,and I load these with 11.5 grns of trail boss.I have tried other smokeless loads but keep going back to trail boss.
 
The book you may want to recreate issue ammunition is;
Loading Cartridges for Original 45-70 Springfield Rifle & Carbine, new revised, expanded 3rd edition by J.S. and Pat Wolf . . . $29.95
Track of the Wolf has copies.
 
griaguns said:
I use 13. grns of Trail Boss behind a 405 grn .459 cast bullet in many of my trap doors ,Only one of my rifles (1878 target model) do I cast the 500 grn,and I load these with 11.5 grns of trail boss.I have tried other smokeless loads but keep going back to trail boss.
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Interesting option.

Some Google searches indicate that Trail Boss may have some interesting pressure characteristics - seems like it's not a powder you want to "experiment" with.

I may give it a try to avoid cleanup issues - I am a lazy SOB by nature.:p
 
Alonzo said:
......
-After prepping the case for loading, charge with 54 to 55 grains of FFg...we have been using GOEX for decades, Curtis and Harvey FFG was no good. No need for a drop tube as it does not help at all!!!
.........
Click to expand...

I have a rather large stash of Goex Cartridge - I'll have to start with that .... have you tried it?
 
Ol' Smokey said:
I have a rather large stash of Goex Cartridge - I'll have to start with that .... have you tried it?
Click to expand...

I have just used the FFg Goex Black. I had tried some of the cartridge pyrodex years ago...no positive results, though I had heard from others that is was awesome. They never did place in competition using the stuff though. Hmmmm, I wonder why.
Cheers
 
Go-ex Cartridge grade is a true black powder, it just receives a glaze finish, I liked it but prefer Swiss black powder. Go-ex has discontinued "Cartridge grade", I believe. My best results do not mirror others on this thread, bullets should be 30-1 or even pure lead, lube must be BP lube for control of fouling. I drop tube every load, after weighing and dribbling charge up to exact weight, I never compress a load while seating the bullet. Unless in the hunting field, I use a blowtube and don't have to wipe until after 5 or 6 shots and accuracy is not affected by fouling as the proper lube keeps it soft....IMHO
 
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