Cast rifle bullets against rifling.

Burton Urnie

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I've heard that some load cast bullets in rifles so they are slightly engaging the rifling.
What are the limits?
Can I use hard cast?
Can I put a hard crimp on them?
Can I powder coat them as well?
Is there any thing else I should be asking?
Advice?
 
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I've heard that some load cast bullets in rifles so they are slightly engaging the rifling.
What are the limits?
Can I use hard cast?
Can I work up charges passed the starting loads?
Can I put a hard crimp on them?
Can I powder coat them as well?
Is there any thing else I should be asking?
Advice?

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"slightly engaging the rifling" - I am not sure what you had heard? I do have some "bore rider" cast bullets - so like two diameters - the nose part is smaller diameter and is supposed to "lightly" engrave along the top of the rifling, while the fatter rear end in supposed to be fully engraved to groove diameter. On the one rifle that I own for those bullets, the throat is way long - and I can not even reach the lands with a bullet seated even just by its toenails. But I suspect there might be rifles with no or very short throat that would allow such a bullet to be chambered with the nose part up the rifling?? Is that what you meant? Alternatively, I had read of old school target shooters with soft lead bullets that seated their bullets solidly into the riflings. There was also a discipline where a lead bullet was placed into the throat, and then a pre-loaded cartridge was chambered behind it - when the breech was closed, that seated the bullet into the case - so that bullet nose would have been solidly into the rifling - some extraordinary groups shot that way - like 10 rounds into less than an inch at 200 yards - using the same case over and over.
 
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I'm not referring to bore riders.
I mean setting the cast bullet ahead so it engages the rifling. Which I know can be done.
So....
Can I use hard cast? ( not pure lead, air cooled)
Can they be COWW , water quenched, powered coated AND engage the rifling?
I know there are many conditions that apply.
 
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OK I'll play then


I've heard that some load cast bullets in rifles so they are slightly engaging the rifling.
What are the limits? when it falls out the muzzel
Can I use hard cast? yes
Can I put a hard crimp on them? why a hard crimp
Can I powder coat them as well? yes
Is there any thing else I should be asking?
Advice?don't over think it!!!!!!!!!!
 
Part 2

I'm not referring to bore riders.
I mean setting the cast bullet ahead so it engages the rifling. Which I know can be done. you have a reason you want to do this?
So....
Can I use hard cast? ( not pure lead, air cooled) covered this already
Can they be COWW , water quenched, powered coated AND engage the rifling? sure, but why
I know there are many conditions that apply.
 
BU, You're asking questions a lot of newbies to cast shooting ask.

Here are a couple of basics that work for me.

I like my bullets to be at least .002 in larger than bore size. If they're powder coated, including the coating .003 in.

As for the cartridges you're going to load for, how hard do you need to cast?? Anything harder than Brinnel 22 is mostly a waste of tin, especially if the bullet is powder coated or has a gas check.

You can shoot powder coated bullets, without lube, to some very decent velocities.

Some rifles shoot lubed bullets, with a gas check better than they do powder coated.

At first I thought it was the type of rifling or width of grooves. Not so.

You need ''faster'' powders to help cast bullets obturate properly for good accuracy.

Flat nose bullets shoot just as well and often better than pointy or long ogive types.

Getting any bullet closer to the leade will almost always be conducive to better accuracy.

Your Ballard, likely has a barrel bored especially for cast bullets and will likely prefer bullet with a Brinnel rating around 15 and it may also prefer Paper Patched bullets.

If you aren't casting/sizing/lubing/powder coating your own bullets, contact the maker, such as Bullet Barn and ask them how hard they cast their bullets.

Unless it's specified, most manufacturers of cast bullets keep their tin mix to give them a Brinnel hardness level around 18, which pretty much covers all situations reasonably well.
 
Thank you for your answers.
I've fired thousands and thousands of cast rounds, handgun and rifle.
When I learned to load 20+ yrs ago, using jacketed bullets I was told keep them a distance ( .010" - .050") off the rifling. Because engaging the rifling can cause dangerous pressures.
SO I just continued this practice.
Now I finding some bullet castings , due to profile, must be seated extremely deep, or they engage the rifling.
Anyways, I can figure it out.
Thanks again.
 
You should have started off with this info.


Generally, lead bullets can touch the lands and be seated a bit deeper. What you have to watch out for is that you don't seat so deep that the bullet remains stuck on extraction.

Every bullet and every firearm will have its own preference.

Powdercoating shouldnt be an issue nor crimping.

I hard cast my COWW and powder coat, the baking of the powdercoating takes out a little of the hardness. Remember you have to quench after coating too.

Hope this post of mine is a little more helpful.
 
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