CCI 200 primers for 458 Win Mag? Or go to the large rifle magnum primer?

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BigBore585

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So I have a bunch of CCI 200 large rifle primers that i use for my 22-250, and I am wondering if anyone has used them for loading the 458 Win Mag? Im going to be loading full house loads, no reduced loads. The powder I have on hand is IMR 3031, and 4198. I found some info and lots of guys have been using these powders without a problem. The load I was going to use is 68.5grs of 3031 under a 450gr barnes TSX, or Speer 400gr soft point. So my question is should I get some large rifle magnum primers like the CCI 250, or Federal 215 or will the CCI 200's work fine? Any help would be great! Im new to reloading. So far no issue, until now.
 
BigBore585 said:
So I have a bunch of CCI 200 large rifle primers that i use for my 22-250, and I am wondering if anyone has used them for loading the 458 Win Mag? Im going to be loading full house loads, no reduced loads. The powder I have on hand is IMR 3031, and 4198. I found some info and lots of guys have been using these powders without a problem. The load I was going to use is 68.5grs of 3031 under a 450gr barnes TSX, or Speer 400gr soft point. So my question is should I get some large rifle magnum primers like the CCI 250, or Federal 215 or will the CCI 200's work fine? Any help would be great! Im new to reloading. So far no issue, until now.
Click to expand...

I have done it the other way. I have used magnum primers in regular sized cases. I even use magnum pistol primers in a lever gun 45/70. I would suspect it would work but you should chrony the results to see if you are getting consistent ignition. You are not using ball ammo which is harder to ignite so it might work out OK. But for the few bucks for primers it might be best to go get some Magnums. Also you wouldn't want a hangfire in a 458.
 
Personally is go with the magnum primers , I don't use either of the mentioned powders so I'm not to sure how temp sensitive they are but as stated a hang fire wouldn't be any fun in a 458 .

That being said I run magnum primers in everything I load that uses large size primers
 
With medium to fast powders like 3031 and 4198 regular primers will work fine. Remember that big bore cartridges like that existed before magnum primers where made so they first used regular primers.
 
Hey thanks for the advice! I figured the primers I had on hand would work. I will buy magnum primers for it, I just didn't want to load a bunch of rounds, and then hear that, the regular large rifle primers are a not a good idea.
 
Hi,
I disagree with both statements made by LUTNIT in post #4.

The general rule of thumb is that when you get to about 60gr or more powder in a cartridge, a magnum primer is required to ensure reliable, consistent ignition. When the 460 Weatherby was introduced in 1958, Federal had actually developed their 215 Larger Rifle Magnum primer for this large capacity case. The 458 Win mag was introduced in 1956, so it was not that much older. When Hornady developed their "new" loads for the 470 NE, Federal developed the 216 LRM primer, which as far as I know, has not been released to the public.

The use of Magnum LR primers is needed in the 458 Win Mag. The CCI 250 will work well and this is what I used in my 458 Win Mag load, 458 Lott and 460 G&A Mag.

I would like to urge all serious reloaders of large bore cartridges to consult modern reloading manuals, or get and study the book " African Dangerous Game Cartridges" by Pierre van der Walt (Safari Press). He spend over 450 pages on discussing the development, use and reloading of cartridges from the 9,3x62 Mauser and bigger.

Remember, just because you or I do something, it does not mean it is the correct/best way of doing it. See what the experts do. I try to do that, because, as someone once said here on CGN, I am after all just " some local guy " giving advice. Learn from the experts (CCI, Speer, Hornady, Hodgdon, Pierre van der Walt, etc.).

RSA1

If
 
You say 60gr, some say 50gr, others say 70gr... seems to be a pretty huge range.
The Hodgdon load data website doesn't even list what primers they use or even recommend. If it's so important why doesn't one of the largest powder manufacturers in the world give it special consideration?
Many independent tests show that some brands "magnum" primers are only as powerful as regular primers from another brand. There is quite a large range of flame temperature and duration among manufacturers. Not all "magnum" primers are made equal.

If magnum primers are so important, why aren't they given more consideration from different companies?
Some say you need magnum primers for large powder loads, others say you need magnum primers for hard to ignite magnum powders. A cigarette lighter or an oxygen torch will both ignite gasoline but it's difficult to ignite oil with a lighter.

Reloading manuals from the experts don't even agree on how important magnum vs regular primers are so to try to say one book is right above all others is a tad rich.
 
LUTNIT said:
You say 60gr, some say 50gr, others say 70gr... seems to be a pretty huge range.
The Hodgdon load data website doesn't even list what primers they use or even recommend. If it's so important why doesn't one of the largest powder manufacturers in the world give it special consideration?
Many independent tests show that some brands "magnum" primers are only as powerful as regular primers from another brand. There is quite a large range of flame temperature and duration among manufacturers. Not all "magnum" primers are made equal.

If magnum primers are so important, why aren't they given more consideration from different companies?
Some say you need magnum primers for large powder loads, others say you need magnum primers for hard to ignite magnum powders. A cigarette lighter or an oxygen torch will both ignite gasoline but it's difficult to ignite oil with a lighter.

Reloading manuals from the experts don't even agree on how important magnum vs regular primers are so to try to say one book is right above all others is a tad rich.
Click to expand...

I would agree with RSA1, other than the fact that I would take the charge down to 50 grains for numerous reasons. First of all, if your going to do cold weather shooting, like your vehicle, the cartridge has a hard time igniting and starting. Second, not all powders burn equally as easy. They didn't even have ball powders until the 50s, and one of the huge problems that Winchester had with the 458 was ignition. Even the non ball powders have deterrents on them now that didn't exist many years ago. The main reason for these deterrents is to change the burning rate on the powder; when you change the burning rate, by very nature, you change the powders ability to ignite as well.
For proper ignition, I even use magnum primers in my 223; always have, in all the 223's that I have owned. Accuracy has never suffered due to this.
I do have large batches of both large and small rifle non magnum primers that I got very inexpensively, but I use them very cautiously; gophers in the summer, not coyotes in the winter...etc.
Ivor
 
I'm on my second Ruger #1 in .458 WM. I've always used CCI 200 primers in this round. Last month, I'm at the range with the rifle and shooting handloads comprising of 60 Grs of IMR3031 and a 530 Gr cast boolit. All went well for the first 10 or so shots and for the first time in over 40 years of re-loading, I got a squib load. The bullet was lodged about 12" down the barrel and clumps of unburned powder in the action when I opened it to check things out. When I got home i pulled the remaining rounds apart and reloaded them with Magnum primers............lesson learned!

Mike
 
Hi LUTNIT,
The original post was very specific, so I am not going to bother answering your comment regarding gasoline, oil and lighters.

You are absolutely correct regarding the fact that there is a lot of variation in reloading manuals, and that is why it is recommended that when using load data from a manual, to use the components it indicates, or understand the principles of reloading a particular cartridge well enough, to be able to make a wise decision when using different components. This is why it is wise to start with a safe load and work up to a maximum.

I do not know why Hodgdon does not list the components used, and suggest you ask them. Perhaps you get what you pay for: my most recent copy of their reloading manual cost $6.95, while both the Speer and Hornady manuals cost over $40, but have much more information.

Just another illustration of using the correct primer for the cartridge/powder load used: In the Speer #14 manual (and remember the same company owns CCI, Speer, RCBS) for the smaller 45-70 and 450 Marlin, Speer lists both CCI 200 and 250 Mag primers for various loads; for the larger capacity 458 Win Mag, they list only CCI 250 Mag primers, but when it comes to the even larger 458 Lott (all 4 mentioned using .458" bullets) and 470 NE, they use Federal 215 Mag primers. This shows how important the correct type of primer is to them, so much so, that they do not even use their own, because they need a hotter primer than the CCI 250, and that is the Federal 215 Magnum primer!

Obviously, most loads can be worked up to a safe / reliable combination, but it does not mean it is better than others. So if you do not want to use magnum primers where it is needed, that is fine. I fit my vehicle with winter tyres when needed, and I use magnum primers when sensible. Yes I can get by without winter tyres, but it is better to use the correct tools / equipment / reloading components to get the best results.

RSA1
 
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