CFE223 in the 303br

[John Y Cannuck]

I've been unable to find data for 200 grain bullets using the new powder Hogdon's CFE223.
I have some 200 grain bullets from 303British.com

I'm working with a Ross M10 here, so, action strength will not be an issue.

What are your suggestions?

 

[Andy]

The 303 British has a case capacity almost identical to the 308 depending on the brass used. The Ross M10 is very strong, like the P14, so "standard" published loads can be exceeded.

Use 308 loads for the 200 grain bullet.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

In the past Andy, I have used "Max" 303Br loads (those loads developed with the SMLE etc in mind) as starting loads for this rifle. So, I am not at all fearful of the action. Just looking to see if I can cut my development time here.

Because case shape, and design is different, and thus bolt thrust, the starting loads I am looking at are somewhat below max 308 loads. I know I'm well within safe boundaries.

As you mentioned, case capacity can be a good indicator, when action strength is not in question. I have done this with other cartridges. For example I routinely use 44 Mag minimum loads as a base for development of 44-40 loads but ONLY in the immensely strong 92 Winchester, when load data is sparse. Also, Max loads in the 303British, become minimum loads for the 303Epps, due to the increase in case capacity, all else being the same.

 

[Andy]

You think the way I do.

In one area we might differ - bolt thrust.

It is simply related to pressure and the internal area of the casehead not including the rim. In that regard the 303 Brit will have less bolt thrust than the 308 at equal pressures. This assumes a dry chamber-brass surface so that the brass can grip the chamber walls.

Those who think that a tapered chamber causes the cartridge to be forced against the boltface with more force than a straighter chamber will disagree, but I am not among them, and I lost interest a long time ago trying to change their minds. Same applies to "slow powders and magnum cartridges "need" long barrels". And there are more.

I use Max 308 loads in my 303 Brit chambered P14 with impunity!

 

[Eagleye]

You think the way I do.

In one area we might differ - bolt thrust.

It is simply related to pressure and the internal area of the casehead not including the rim. In that regard the 303 Brit will have less bolt thrust than the 308 at equal pressures. This assumes a dry chamber-brass surface so that the brass can grip the chamber walls.

Those who think that a tapered chamber causes the cartridge to be forced against the boltface with more force than a straighter chamber will disagree, but I am not among them, and I lost interest a long time ago trying to change their minds. Same applies to "slow powders and magnum cartridges "need" long barrels". And there are more.

I use Max 308 loads in my 303 Brit chambered P14 with impunity!

You and I share this practice, Andy. Have yet to get into trouble doing this. Dave.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Anyone who doubts Andy on the bolt thrust needs to read Ackley's work.

firing a 30-30 with no bolt stop in place and the lever held up by a thread, said it for me.

Brass grips the chamber walls very well.

Still, when using a new powder, I'll always er on the cautious side.

That, and the Brass dept took a real hit when I sorted it this time around. Some of my SMLE's tend to stretch 'er a tad.

 

[Andy]

In the past Andy, I have used "Max" 303Br loads (those loads developed with the SMLE etc in mind) as starting loads for this rifle. So, I am not at all fearful of the action. Just looking to see if I can cut my development time here.

Because case shape, and design is different, and thus bolt thrust, the starting loads I am looking at are somewhat below max 308 loads. I know I'm well within safe boundaries.

As you mentioned, case capacity can be a good indicator, when action strength is not in question. I have done this with other cartridges. For example I routinely use 44 Mag minimum loads as a base for development of 44-40 loads but ONLY in the immensely strong 92 Winchester, when load data is sparse. Also, Max loads in the 303British, become minimum loads for the 303Epps, due to the increase in case capacity, all else being the same.

We seem to think alike and we know that: "Great minds think alike and fools seldom differ", but I think we're ok here.

I have a Puma M1892 in 45 Colt and routinely use 44 Mag loads in it, as published 45 Colt loads for strong actions are scarce and are usually for pistols, while 44 Mag loads are far more numerous and include rifle loads. As a margin of "safety" I know that the pressure induced by 44 Mag loads used in a 45 Colt will be lower than published for the 44 Mag due to the greater case capacity of the 45 Colt and its larger bore size, so I could exceed published 44 Mag loads if I was so inclined.

 

[MiG25]

How do you like the Puma? A 45 Colt 1892 has been on my wish list for decades.

 

[old303]

I've been unable to find data for 200 grain bullets using the new powder Hogdon's CFE223.
I have some 200 grain bullets from 303British.com

I'm working with a Ross M10 here, so, action strength will not be an issue.

What are your suggestions?

There's an interesting Load Development Request at the top of Hodgdon's load data page.

It is a problem when new powders replace the old and there's less data remaining for yesteryear's cartridges, but I had been looking with interest at the StabAll 6.5 data for .303 British in both regular and reduced loadings, so at least one of the new powders has been tested.