CFO contradicting answers Please help me understand!

I agree but the RCMP's 'stance' has been the rifling must extend to the end of the barrel for measuring the length in respect to barrel length. This does not apply to shotguns. I have seen nothing in the actual 'law' stating this. It was the RCMP's reaction to short Carbine barrels being extended.

If this project is completed as described, why would any official ever be inspecting it? It's a non restricted bolt action rifle in an odd caliber.

But IIRC that only applied to people wanting to add length to a barrel.

For example, those remington 700 rifles with the triangle barrel. The 'muzzle brake', which is machined into the barrel is back bored (no rifling at the tip) but counted towards barrel length because it was always a part of the barrel.
 
The problem is the poor way our laws were written and the lack of a legal precedent challenged in an actual court of law not the RCMP star chamber.
 
As an aside, nothing that you hear on the phone from anyone at the CFC is worth the paper it's not written on. Get every opinion in writing, on department letterhead signed by someone with the authority to sign it. Stop calling them and write them a registered letter with a required reply date.

Scott

Even the stuff in writing is questionable at times. Me and a buddy contacted them about his 10/22 in a nomad folding stock with a 16" barrel, trying to figure out how to make it NR (overall length folded was under the limit). We were told no matter how you attach a flash hider, it doesn't count, and that you can't modify the stock to not fold either (once a folding stock always a folding stock, even if you epoxy the hell out of it ect).

Meanwhile, the Troy PAR got NR status due to its pinned on muzzle device, and now NS is importing the anchutz ar-looking rifle with the folding stock pinned from the factory to make NR length.

So either what the lab told us is wrong (we have two emails from techs stating these "facts") or those guns shouldn't be NR.


OP, as long as you are not cutting an existing barrel to less than 18", and the firearm remains over the necessary length, I think what you want to do would be NR and good to go. Of course the only one who can decide that for sure is a judge...
 
Trev, I know you are a gunsmith, Tiriaq? I just stated what the RCMP and I spent time about this kind of thing.
Chamber inserts are not the same thing, they can be taken out.
If you have a manufacturing licence, than that is different a gunsmith licence.
At one time , put a 38 cal savage rifle barrel , cut to 8" on a colt trooper, 357m that some one had buggered, shoot great,
but it was not 9mm of course.
Sorry guys , I am not trying to start a fight, just saying what I went through a few years ago with this kind of thing.
I'm gone.
I have seen GM. barrels in Canada, but not sure about that cal.
 
The CFO.
Did you actually expect them to do something useful?:rolleyes:
For years we got along without this organ of state security breathing down our necks.
Now we have another redundant bureaucracy eating up precious police resources and tax dollars and making absolutely nobody 1 iota safer.
Just another way the Liberals have destroyed this country with their ineffective ideology and emotion driven crap.
 
Trev, I know you are a gunsmith, Tiriaq? I just stated what the RCMP and I spent time about this kind of thing.
Chamber inserts are not the same thing, they can be taken out.
If you have a manufacturing licence, than that is different a gunsmith licence.
At one time , put a 38 cal savage rifle barrel , cut to 8" on a colt trooper, 357m that some one had buggered, shoot great,
but it was not 9mm of course.
Sorry guys , I am not trying to start a fight, just saying what I went through a few years ago with this kind of thing.
I'm gone.
I have seen GM. barrels in Canada, but not sure about that cal.

I am not a practicing gunsmith, just a guy that has always dicked about with guns and paid close attention to what we can and cannot do. For around the last 40 years. I work on my stuff. Sometimes, other guys stuff, if it's interesting. My usual charge, is "Say Thank You!". That way I don't get stiffed by folks that think my hobby should be used to their advantage!

One of the few 'almost' good things that came about as a result of Bill C-68, was that almost all the Laws that actually specifically stated that a person was not supposed to make their own guns, pretty much went away. The 'ghosts of the old laws still manifest ("You can't Make Guns without a Licence!), as well as the ghosts of some proposed Regulations that were stricken off the Laws by the time they were Finalized ("It's only an Antique, if ammunition cannot be bought anymore!"), as two prime examples. The process is pretty much now the same as the States, where if you can own it, and it does not fall into any of the Prohib categories, you can legally make it. Policy says that "once it is a firearm" (clear as mud, eh?)it has 30 days to be registered, if it is a Restricted, like an AR-15, for instance. There is no law that says you cannot make any parts except the ones about prohib length barrels and other named Prohib parts.
But other than Prohib parts, there is no requirement for any license or permissions to make any guns or other parts of them, for your own gratification. The laws actually used to say that you couldn't make guns. But a "Gun" is whatever part has the serial number, the rest, you were free to play about with.

The root cause of this, is all about someone giving an opinion that the OP was headed in a direction that would get him in trouble because of using a short pistol barrel onna rifle.

Not so much. Whether he welds it, glues it, or doesn't, the tube that is screwed on to the receiver, is the barrel, for his purposes. That's the way I would treat it, and I would sleep just fine at that.

He's not making a short barrel, he's making an insert that will allow him to shoot what he wants out of his (insert random diameter here) bore barrel.

All poorly defined and all poorly written into laws by people that don't want any of us to have scary old guns in the first place, and who didn't really have any background or knowledge of them besides what they learned in movies and the News. Expecting help with more than simple documentation or clear-cut interpretations of the actual Laws, is about the best you can expect, otherwise the default seems to be "Send it in and we'll look at it, eventually". Especially from the phone droids. And even more so, if the OP was not able to adequately explain exactly what he was going to end up with.

While there are many that would stick to the 'err to the side of caution' line, I will suggest that it IS actually possible to be too safe, by staying in bed and pulling the blanket over your head in the hopes that nothing bad will happen as a result. Otherwise, it pretty much boils down to having a pretty good understanding of the Laws and getting one with life and enjoying one's hobbies.

Reaming out the existing barrel, or scratch building same from whatever is handy, and marking it as whatever size bore you want to call it, and then calling whatever you stick inside it a insert, is legal, else the ones out on the market now for shotguns would not be. Agreed?
How it is installed, is not discussed or defined anywhere, as far as the Laws are concerned, that I have ever seen or heard of. Anyone that has a reference link, that contradicts that, feel free to post it. So whether it was loose fitted, held in with a set screw, or welded in, it is not the same as if he were trying to stick a hunk onto the end of an existing barrel.

It seems pretty clear to me, that the OP's plan is just fine. I have already expressed why "I" wouldn't do what he wants to, but that has nothing to do with it not being perfectly legal as I see it.

Cheers
Trev
 
I am not a practicing gunsmith, just a guy that has always dicked about with guns and paid close attention to what we can and cannot do. For around the last 40 years. I work on my stuff. Sometimes, other guys stuff, if it's interesting. My usual charge, is "Say Thank You!". That way I don't get stiffed by folks that think my hobby should be used to their advantage!

One of the few 'almost' good things that came about as a result of Bill C-68, was that almost all the Laws that actually specifically stated that a person was not supposed to make their own guns, pretty much went away. The 'ghosts of the old laws still manifest ("You can't Make Guns without a Licence!), as well as the ghosts of some proposed Regulations that were stricken off the Laws by the time they were Finalized ("It's only an Antique, if ammunition cannot be bought anymore!"), as two prime examples. The process is pretty much now the same as the States, where if you can own it, and it does not fall into any of the Prohib categories, you can legally make it. Policy says that "once it is a firearm" (clear as mud, eh?)it has 30 days to be registered, if it is a Restricted, like an AR-15, for instance. There is no law that says you cannot make any parts except the ones about prohib length barrels and other named Prohib parts.
But other than Prohib parts, there is no requirement for any license or permissions to make any guns or other parts of them, for your own gratification. The laws actually used to say that you couldn't make guns. But a "Gun" is whatever part has the serial number, the rest, you were free to play about with.

The root cause of this, is all about someone giving an opinion that the OP was headed in a direction that would get him in trouble because of using a short pistol barrel onna rifle.

Not so much. Whether he welds it, glues it, or doesn't, the tube that is screwed on to the receiver, is the barrel, for his purposes. That's the way I would treat it, and I would sleep just fine at that.

He's not making a short barrel, he's making an insert that will allow him to shoot what he wants out of his (insert random diameter here) bore barrel.

All poorly defined and all poorly written into laws by people that don't want any of us to have scary old guns in the first place, and who didn't really have any background or knowledge of them besides what they learned in movies and the News. Expecting help with more than simple documentation or clear-cut interpretations of the actual Laws, is about the best you can expect, otherwise the default seems to be "Send it in and we'll look at it, eventually". Especially from the phone droids. And even more so, if the OP was not able to adequately explain exactly what he was going to end up with.

While there are many that would stick to the 'err to the side of caution' line, I will suggest that it IS actually possible to be too safe, by staying in bed and pulling the blanket over your head in the hopes that nothing bad will happen as a result. Otherwise, it pretty much boils down to having a pretty good understanding of the Laws and getting one with life and enjoying one's hobbies.

Reaming out the existing barrel, or scratch building same from whatever is handy, and marking it as whatever size bore you want to call it, and then calling whatever you stick inside it a insert, is legal, else the ones out on the market now for shotguns would not be. Agreed?
How it is installed, is not discussed or defined anywhere, as far as the Laws are concerned, that I have ever seen or heard of. Anyone that has a reference link, that contradicts that, feel free to post it. So whether it was loose fitted, held in with a set screw, or welded in, it is not the same as if he were trying to stick a hunk onto the end of an existing barrel.

It seems pretty clear to me, that the OP's plan is just fine. I have already expressed why "I" wouldn't do what he wants to, but that has nothing to do with it not being perfectly legal as I see it.

Cheers
Trev

Very well said on everything you covered.
 
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