CFSAC cancelled, participate in local PRA/DCRA matches:

NavyShooter

NavyShooter

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1. Regrettably, CFSAC (Canadian Forces Small Arms Competition) andCanadian Military participation in the related international Military Skill At Arms Competitions (Bisley CENTSAM England, AASAM Australia and AFSAM USA) have been zero funded for 2006 due to a recently announced major cut to the Army FY 06/07 Budget. As a consequence CFSAC 2006 will not be conducted and the Canadian Forces will not be sending a representative Military Marksmanship Team to any of the following International Skill at Arms Competitions:

a. NRA (National Rifle Association) and CENTSAM (Central Skill at Arms Meeting) held at Bisley England;
b. AASAM (Australian Army Skill at Arms Meeting); and
c. AFSAM (American Forces Skill at Arms Meeting).

2. In the absence of CFSAC, participation in regional or PRA (Provincial Rifle Association) and national, DCRA (Dominion Of Canada Rifle association) skill at arms meetings is highly recommended as an integral part of the overall marksmanship program. Beyond the obvious aspects of competition (trophies etc) high level marksmanship with service small arms is the principal training vehicle in the Canadian Military which produces skill at arms masters. These personal weapons masters then perpetuate a high level expertise in marksmanship training so important to the evolution of the application of small arms in operations. Whether or not financial sp is available, Fmns and units should support to the extent possible and at the very least encourage those so inclined to attend local and national DCRA sponsored service small arms competitions.

3. Funding remains in place for the following other competitions/activities:

a. CF Professional Driver's Competition;
b. CISC (Canadian International Sniper Concentration);
c. CFSC (CF Sniper Competition);
d. NATO Reserve Shooting Competition;
e. US/UK Army Sniper Concentrations; and
f. Cambrian Patrol.

4. Please disseminate this information down to member level.
 
Unbelievable. We aren't going to fund CFSAC but we encourage soldiers to pay out of pocket to train on their own.
 
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I welcome this message. This is the only real dialogue that has come from the Army in the last couple of years and the message is a positive one.

It makes it clear that it is "alright" to support your soldiers (sailers and airmen/women) in a formation or unit marksmanship program. For the years since the last CFSAC, many army units thought and believed it was "not alright" to have your troops attend provincial or other competitions,, or to even earmark locally available funds and resources for a minimized marksmanship program. Indeed,, it would seem that it was the Navy that have kept things going for the last couple of years.

My read of the message, is that it does not direct or lean towards having the soldier to pay out of their pocket,, but just the opossite. The unit CO's are encouraged to give the support possible. The encouragement they are asking for is for the CO's to stand up and do something and if the troops are interested,, then make it so.

I think the message is clear. There should be no systemic impediments to any unit involving themselves in the provincial, national or professional marksmanship arena just because CFSAC isn't funded. If your CO can scrape together some bullets, TD and wages,, then it should happen. We are not talking big money in the overall picture here.
 
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Aye,

I take it as a positive sign too. There may be no official CFSAC this year, but we'll continue to keep our hands in it, and develop our operationally useful marksmanship skills while we're at it.

NS
 
Regretable, but we cannot change what is announced.

What we CAN change, however is the PRA and DCRA matches by attending them and training your people in various small arms skills in preparation for competition and / or deployment.

Let's look forward to an active 2006 season. I know we in the ORA are getting stoked for the Service Rifle as well as the Tactical Carbine and 3Gun match(es) end of things.

Stay in touch,
Barney
 
Decision logic

<< 3. Funding remains in place for the following other competitions/activities:

a. CF Professional Driver's Competition;
b. CISC (Canadian International Sniper Concentration);
c. CFSC (CF Sniper Competition);
d. NATO Reserve Shooting Competition;
e. US/UK Army Sniper Concentrations; and
f. Cambrian Patrol. >>

I'm surprised they didn't leave the 5-Pin bowling championships on the list. Although driving safety is important, I think far more enemy have been killed by gunfire than semi-trailer trucks.
 
very sad in my opion..................telling soldiers to train /shoot but sorry no funding.............reminds me of the lads sent over to afganistan with wrong camo.............or sailors in used subs................
just--aint-right.
i am ok if they wanna do the local shoots as an extra / go for it thing. but other wise seems stupid.
 
Don't mix up training for war and training for competition. We spend a great deal of money getting the troops equiped and trained for deployment. We haven't had the time or people to focus on competitions considering the op tempo we are facing.

Cheers

Jeff
 
i agree morpheus22, the skirmish line is way--to--thin...........hope either the masters in ottawa back off on deployments or sign up more troopers..............no one deserves to face the cannons toooo much. its hard on mind /body/ and families.
nuff said,
 
Well we are growing and in a couple years the stress will be less. From my position the pace is rather crazy but at the end of the day, we are at war whether we like it or not...

Jeff
 
Morpheus32 said:
Don't mix up training for war and training for competition. We spend a great deal of money getting the troops equiped and trained for deployment. We haven't had the time or people to focus on competitions considering the op tempo we are facing.

Cheers

Jeff
Click to expand...

Ok, no offence, but this is going to sound like a bit of a rant....

While I understand and agree with your last statement, I respectfully disagree with you're first two. Small arms competition is about making every soldier a more effective and competent rifleman. period. At the very least, every infantry regiment (reserve and regular) should be sending troops to competition. It builds Espri de Corps. (Tell 2vp to ####can Kapyong days) Small arms competition should be contributing to this while driving home the point of where the rifle and the rifleman should be in the Canadian Army -at the very pinnacle. I understand units must work within the confines of budgets, but just because alot of money is spent on nessecary work up training, it does not make it right for this to be dismissed.
Not everyone is going on deployment, there are units that could and should field teams, it simply should not be an option. The problem though, is that this (shooting competition) has been bread out of the Forces' thinking as being largely irrelevant. Perhaps more and more deployments without the blue will force this thinking around. Just my take, ymmv
 
In theory your concerns are correct. Marksmanship competitions should round out our marksmanship training program. In the past this has been the case. Unfortunately, life in the army is a little different right now. With the managed readiness program, every infantry battalion will deploy as part of a task force every 18 months. In the past we had smaller numbers of deployments and a less deliberate training process. I have trained our marksmanship teams in the past and I am intimately familar with what is required including the support.

During the time troops are not deploying, soldiers are now looking at up to a year of primary combat function (PCF) training, followed by anywere from 6-9 months of deliberate collective training exercises. Add to that the 1-2 months of theatre specific training prior to deployment, add in leave and there is not much left. Now within that timeline we have to do career courses, new courses to support the new gear we are getting, and all the other things. The plate is rather full. LAV qualifications which take a significant period of time have become our weakpoint. We also have to support reserve summer training and regular recruit and leadership training during this timeframe. Oh ya, we are forming a Special Operations Regiment which needs recruits as well as pers for the expanded JTF2. We are also training and deploying up to 200 reservists with each deployment. The kicker right now, we are not recruiting to attrition...so we are getting smaller rather than growing...

To give you numbers, we have about 500 returning from deployment right now, 1800 deploying in the next couple of weeks. In 07, we will be deploying at least 1200 in Feb and Aug. If you know the numbers in western area, that is just about everyone....

In terms of marksmanship training, there has been a shift in training. We are giving more rounds to the units than ever before and units are doing CQB/Urban training. Our small arms marksmanship program is about to go about a fundimental change. It is being entirely rewritten. As well the individual battle task standards which will reflect the contempory operating environment including urban ops.

For the record, the comment in the message was that units could and should continue to train teams where possible. It was not intended that individuals should pay but the units. Formations would have to allocate funds to support this but there is not a problem with ammunition. Formations this year have not received funding to support CFSAC style training and would have to fund within there own baseline.

One additional comment on CFSAC. The matches themselves will not be as per the matches of the past. The entire small arms competition program is changing, they will be completely different and will be very similar to the new Personal Weapons Test (PWT) stages. Also there will be no civilian competitors and no parellel civilian matches. There will also be a limit on the number of times a competitor can return to CFSAC.

So the long and the short of it, we don't have time right now particularly until we grow with new recruits. Troops are training like mad and we simply don't have time. If we did make it a priority, what do we give up? Combat medical training (which is finally approved)? Driver training, collective training exercises? Career courses? We could probably do something but in the end it would be half assed. So it is not quite so simple an answer...

Jeff
 
Forgot to mention as well that one battalion received 1K per man of ammo for a one week shooting program. We expanded that to anyone who would be leaving the camp on the next deployment....everyone regardless of trade. The training was based on a local developed and approved program which draws its lessons from the experiences overseas. It was a top notch program and well received. So the troops...all of them regardless of training are getting to the range. In the next couple of months, all army pers will be required to do PWT....times they are a changing..there is no front line anymore....everyone must be trained well...


Jeff
 
Longshot said:
Anyone have any info on
The Nato Reserve Shooting Competition????
Click to expand...

This is a competition that is held in the UK and any NATO country may submit an all ranks Reservist team to this event. Some of the events that are competed in are as follows:

9mm Pistol
SA80 Rifle
assault/obstacle course
dummy grenade throw
archery
emergency first aid
 
I will be able to advise on Monday. I believe there is a fixed number of positions associated with this. It might be assigned to an area. I will confirm with my guys at the office and get back to you. Cheers

Jeff
 
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