Challenger Target Load Blows up on extraction from chamber

WOW! That is messed up. I stopped using Challenger ammo because it jams up in my mossberg 500 .... Federal ammo hasn't bothered it once.
 
I agree that the description of the damage does not seem to agree with the explanation. The damage description sees explosions at least partially in the chamber, which is why the receiver did not burst or bulge (presumably). The multiple shell release from the mag scenario would have caused a jam, or an explosion in the receiver in the worst case. If this occurred you would have a wreaked/bulged receiver and I believe you would have felt a grenade go off in your hands.
You were lucky, in any case.
 
The pressure was low, because there was no round in the chamber. I was in the process of ejecting the round in the chamber when the problem occurred, so the bolt was half open. The shell coming out of the magazine was the first to go off, setting off the shell that was being ejected. All the debris went mostly out the ejection and loading ports. But it did sting. I had a finger count after the initial shock, and the noise was unbelievable.
 
gttsc said:
Mystery solved. The browning gold has a defective design. The so called "speed load" feature that allows the first shell loaded into the magazine to go directly into the chamber is the root cause. When the gun is loaded (one in the chamber and two in the magazine) operating the bolt handle will cause the first round in the chamber to be released onto the carrier. There is a small lever that is activated by the first shell coming out of the magazine that is "supposed" to prevent the second shell in the magazine from also being released. If this catch doesn't get properly activated, the second shell in the magazine also gets released, slamming into the the first shell in the magazine that is already on the carrier. The design of the browning gold, unlike say a Remington 1100, releases the first shell out of the magazine when the bolt is 1/3 to half way open. So in my case, when I went to unload the gun (which was on safe btw), I got the bolt part of the way open, which released both shells in the magazine simultaneously, detonating both the shell on the carrier and the shell being extracted from the chamber. This was an as new shotgun that was well maintained and in good shape. After disassembling, inspecting and cleaning, I ran the process with snap caps and the problem was clear. If there is any variance in your ammo (particularly if it is slightly under size, the shell coming out of the magazine will not properly activate the catch that prevents the second shell from coming out. This phenomenon was repeated during subsequent firing of the gun with different ammo. Was the biggest problem with 2 3/4" shells, and lessened with 3 and 3 1/2" shells.
My conclusion is that it's a bad (or at best weak design) that is compounded by trying to design a gun the will shoot three different shell sizes. The speed load "feature" is poorly designed and can lead to a catastrophic event as a result of the unloading of the gun.
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Thanks for posting the update on your investigation into the unloading issue.

Glad that you were not hurt seriously as it must have been quite a shocking incident.

Have you actually followed up directly with Browning in regards to the incident and the "speed load" feature?
How is it that the length of the shell being used (2 3/4" vs 3 1/2") impacts the issue? Would the catch on the shell not be on the base/head of the shell, making the length of the shell irrelevant?


Has there been anything done to inspect or ensure the "lever" that is activated by the first shell coming out of the magazine that is "supposed" to prevent the second shell in the magazine from being released is in proper working order or do you just surmise that it is a design weakness that could result in a similar incident at any time with this make/model of firearm?

Are you still using that particular shotgun or have you disposed of it due to its inherit poorly designed feature which is in your opinion can result in a catastrophic event?

Thank-you in advance for answering my questions if you so choose, as I use a Browning Gold Hunter shotgun with a 3 1/2" chamber and I am looking for further insight into the issue.
 
browninggold said:
A defective design? Sounds more like bad ammo. I shot Browning Golds exclusively for many years, some models having the mag cutoff, and never once did I experience any kind of malfunction. My guns were always maintained regularly, and with the ones with the mag cut off I always made sure the switch was down tight. May have been some underlying issues with your gun but it's far from a defective design as its also been used on Auto 5's for many years as well.
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Makes two of us. In fact still have four golds 2 12ga and two 10ga and thousands of rounds through them and never an issue
They have never seen challenger shells either with their high sitting cheddite primers
Not the gun design by an means
Cheers
 
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I have shot upwards of 100,000 Challenger shells in my O/Us and semi-autos through the years, and have not, even once, experienced anything like that.
 
I haven't shot a whole lot of them to date but I put 4 flats through my guns in the 2021 ATA season and aside from being a bit more recoil heavy than the Federals I prefer to shoot I never had issues. Of course I am shooting them through a pair of break action guns not a semi or pump and my singles gun I have removed the ejector rod to make it so you have to extract the empty round and none have stuck or swollen into the chamber, I've inspected the hulls afterward for punctured primers and neither my XT or TM punctured any and I've known fellows who had that issue. Was it the cheddite primer or the gun? Not sure...I know they can be had as much as $10/flat cheaper than Federal Top Gun or Winchester Super Target from a retailer we know but of course it's a 5 hour drive so that negates any savings if we make a specific trip to get them but when going by on our way to a shoot we will call ahead and get a few flats set aside and pick them up at that time if they have stock....
 
seems it all depends on who you talk to.
For as much positive on the trap shooters form as one example there is a fair amount of negative also
One comment below . I have seen the pierced primers here on two occasions with friends and both were brownings
Cons;

- Pierced Primers, I know some don't but both my 1984 Citori Grade I Trap and 2005 BT-99 pierce approx. 1/3 of them
- Pressure somewhat inconsistent? when shooting my 1100 Classic Trap or Competition Synthetic I find that 5 or 6 out of a box of 25 will cause the bolt to slam back hard and the shell usually jumps through the Birchwood Casey shell catcher. This does not happen with my reloads or Win. Super Targets.

I have stopped using them because of the "Cons" I have experienced. YMMV
 
I don't shoot Challengers, but our shotgun club has Challengers in stock for members to shoot....thousands per week with no issues. 90% of the guys I shoot with use them very effectively without any malfunctions.
 
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