Changing a .380 to a .22, then to a .17 mach 2

anchor3593

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The winter was getting long.

A little Beretta .380 (12.6) ejected empties straight up to land on my hat - making them hard to collect, so I changed it over to a .22 LR.

This required :

a new barrel
changes to the magazine
work to bottom side of the slide
changing the firing pin
changing the bolt face from centre fire to rim fire
changing the hammer spring
changing recoil spring
work to the extractor
other stuff

The results were not so impressive. The slide was too heavy, requiring that the hammer spring be as light as possible and the recoil spring very light also. Everything had to be very slick - perfectly polished on all contact surfaces. It worked, but .22 LR just doesn't have the horsepower to throw the heavy slide like it should. It never felt far from the point of not working.

I learned:

That a .22 slide should be about 2 oz lighter than a .380 slide.

That a magazine has more engineering in it than I ever thought. It is tricky to get those rimfire cases which are bigger at the base than at the front to stack up in a magazine with the nose of the bullet at the right attitude. After five in a stack, they start to level out and nose down.

That the case head needs to be supported on the opposite side from the extractor, to keep the case rim under the extractor.

That the chamber must be polished smooth to allow the blowback to actuate the action dependably.

Other stuff.

Well winter wasn't over yet - so what about a .17 Mach 2? That required:

another barrel - chambered and installed.
minor magazine changes
reinstalling the .380 hammer spring
a heavier recoil spring
other stuff

Now this .17 Mach 2 Beretta starts getting silly :

It blows the head off some cases, leaving the case in the chamber. Oiling the chamber only partially fixes that.

All case heads are bulged - no longer flat.

Some cases rupture as they extract/blowback - spraying fine brass particles.

The cases have every sign of extreme pressure - the case head etc is pounded thin like as if struck with a hammer - paper thin. The case is abraded from blowing out of the chamber while under peak pressure.

Unburned powder is lying about.

Other stuff!

From this I suppose:

These little Mach 2 bullets operate at very very high pressure compared to .22 LR.

The Mach 2 cases are thin - they weigh 10% less than a .22 LR case, even though they are longer. ( The COL is the same as .22 LR.)

They may use a slower burning powder.

I conclude:

That .17 Mach 2 is not suitable for a blowback operated gun. I think that if I used a locked action that delayed the opening of the breech until the pressure was down, that it could work better.

That safety equipment is good.

I also learned that if an extractor spring is too strong, that the extractor can slamfire when it hits on the rim of a rimfire case and that:

It is good to point the muzzle in a safe direction while loading.
 
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And I thought I was doing silly stuff all winter to wast time.:p
Ihave not played with the .17, but did not Ruger have a
.17 in there MK11 pistols? Blow back, as well the 10/17 ,
longer barrel thou
I have a Marbles gamegetter in 22rf/410 that has a sewer
pipe for a 22 barrel and have thought about what you are doing,
but as it is single shot , would be a lot simpler .
P.S re the 22's what about head space? , and chamber throut?
 
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That sounds pretty cool.

Have any pictures?

The problems with the 17 mach 2 sound similar to some of the issues seen in 17 HMR semiauto rifles like the 597.
 
Yes I think Kerry does relining, I also could do it some
day , If I can ever run out of work:p
I don't understand why the head would be crushed
on the 22 shell unless there could be a problem with the chamber??
Sounds strange.
The game getter would be easy to make a new barrel as it is
just a stright barrel about 3/8" diam., pined at front and rear end
, than I would still have the orignal.
 
Marshal - I don't know how well the Rugers worked, but my Beretta bolt (slide) is pretty heavy - and to be honest, it does work - just not into the safe zone. It is nice to get things further from the edge.

I am really surprised at the extreme pressures shown.

I have a few 12.6 guns that I have lengthened and am happy with them all - 'cept this one.

I haven't done a long gun reline job yet. Drilling would take a while.

On the .22s, I use a standard .22LR chamber reamer. then polish a little headspace is fine I think.

Oh - it isn't the .22s that have crushed heads - it is the .17 Mach 2. The .22s work fine - just lack energy to throw the slide back.

SPI - sorry - no pics - I suffer from old-guy computer syndrome. Actually I did sell one FIE Titan on the EE recently - a nice little gun that you could see pictures of - okay - I don't know how to put a link here.

So the 597 in HMR has troubles? I will look it up - maybe learn something.

I will go back to it again soon.
 
SPI - sorry - no pics - I suffer from old-guy computer syndrome. Actually I did sell one FIE Titan on the EE recently - a nice little gun that you could see pictures of - okay - I don't know how to put a link here.

So the 597 in HMR has troubles? I will look it up - maybe learn something.

I will go back to it again soon.

I took a look at the Titan. Nice work.

Yep, not just with the 597's, although those are the only ones that I have personally seen, but semi-auto 17HMR's in general.
 
We must be about the same age, I don't know how to post pictures here
as well, though I can email them.
Yes ,I got mixed up on the two different shells.
If you have a standard 22 slide, check to see what the difference
is compared to the berretta slide.
I could wieght a hi-standard slide is you would like.,Thou I don't
know how you could lighten it up short of grinding/drilling holes.
I do not deal in new guns, but I think the ruger pulled the 17hmr's
in semi-auto off the market, there will be lots of guys here that will know.
If you ever find out what is up with your .17's let us know.
I would try opening the throat up some more:confused:
Marshall
 
That safety equipment is good.

I also learned that if an extractor spring is too strong, that the extractor can slamfire when it hits on the rim of a rimfire case and that:

It is good to point the muzzle in a safe direction while loading.

A very....interesting....corallary!

NS
 
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