Changing Collection Directions

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello All,

I have been considering for many months to focus my collection into a specific avenue, with a max of 3 different kinds of carbine in my collection. I am looking for carbines that are unique, not all that common, have value and are interesting from a historical aspect.

I am interested in having no more than 3 calibers, as another option, and collecting carbines only chambered in those calibers.

To specify, a carbine in my understanding is a firearm 45" or shorter OAL.

I am looking to slowly sell my collection and re-focus, as right now my collection is highly varied and I would prefer to gain a high knowledge of a few unique carbines.

So far, I am looking to decide between these carbines:

Martini-Henry/Martini-Enfield Mk.I, II, III Carbines (Artillery/Cavalry)

Swedish M94/14 Cav. Carbine

Norwegian Krag Jorgensen (M1912, M1912/16, or any of the other full-stocked Krag Carbines in 6.5X55)

Russian M91/38 Carbine (or any Mosin carbine using a recycled Tsarist era reciever, I have heard the Czechs had some perhaps?)

Japanese Arisaka M-38 Cavalry Carbine

I would certainly like to hear some commentary on my choices, what people think of them (especially those who own them), for cost wise and shooting capability/ease of reloading etc. I also ask for people to offer other ideas and choices for carbines.

Thank you very much, once I get settled into my descisions, there will be rifles coming up for sale! Keep your eyes peeled gents!

Yours Sincerely,
Drachenblut
 
For one of the three choices would deffinetly go with the Martini Henry. Ammo is coming more readily availible. The M-H is a blast to shoot. I have a full lenght, full dressed Mark I, and I really enjoy going out and "plinking" with it. The martini's do hold there value well aswell. Probally also more common in this country then the rest of the items on your list.

Cheers
 
LOL. Not quite Delta. I am looking to sell some of my collection to help pay for school and what is left, to head in a different direction. I am considering selling my "short rifles" and "rifles", and sticking with a few carbines. The only issue is I do not want to load for several calibers, I would rather stick with 4 at absolute maximum.

To that end, what would you gentlemen suggest?

Here is a list of what I own, for comparison (or, if someone is interested ;)

Swedish M94/14 1898 – Good to Very Good Condition, rebuild from a sporter, bolt, receiver and rear site match. Stock and bands do not match. Has proper /14 bayonet and scabbard.

Krag Jorgenson Sporter 1906 – Good condition, ex seal hunter gun, smooth as glass action.

1917 Ross Sporter – Very Good condition, CRB marked, shoots well, bore good.

1917 M95 Stutzen AOI Marked – Good to Very Good condition, soon to be up for sale + dies + clips

1918 Remington Model 10 Shotgun – Good condition, cut down to riot/guard length

1920 BSA Siamese Contract – Very good condition, mismatched Siamese bolt, + proper sling + proper bayonet + proper metal scabbard + proper frog. Strong rifling, slightly dark bore. Shoots accurately and has a smooth-as-glass-bolt. Bolt headspaces fine.

Russian Mosin Nagant M-38 1941 – Excellent condition, very fine refurb job, proper war-time M-38 stock, matching bolt, counterbored.

Finnish M39 Sako Straight Stock 1941 – Good to Very Good condition, has a war-time ding in the stock repaired with pine-sap tar common of Finnish WWII military service. Good bore, strong lands, slightly dark. Matching. Has a very well branded Sako gear mark on the stock.

Lee Enfield No.5 Mk. I 1944 – Very good condition, has tropical paint under all wood surfaces on the metal. Bore is excellent, no pits, bright and shiny. Shoots like a dream.

Sks-45 Scoped 1954 – Hardwood SKS in very good condition, refurb, has recoil spring pad installed, plus bolt cover scope set, plus 3X9 compact power scope, and bipod. Very accurate (3 in group or so) out to 150 yards, have not tested further.

Winchester Lever Action Model 150 .22 1950’s – Very good condition, a great plinker, has a 3X9 power scope and puts holes in holes at 50 yards.

Cheers,
Drachenblut
 
*ahems* With respect purple. I knew gentlemen in the Korean War who were issued these. They said, it took half a mag to stop a running man. I cannot state facts to validate, but my understanding is it's cartridge could not get through even minor cover. So, thank you but no thanks. I will stick with higher power cartridges and carbines. Note, I will also not buy a Spanish Destroyer in 9mm Largo either.
 
Drachenblut said:
*ahems* With respect purple. I knew gentlemen in the Korean War who were issued these. They said, it took half a mag to stop a running man. I cannot state facts to validate, but my understanding is it's cartridge could not get through even minor cover. So, thank you but no thanks. I will stick with higher power cartridges and carbines. Note, I will also not buy a Spanish Destroyer in 9mm Largo either.
Click to expand...

how many hits though?
 
We aren't re-fighting the Korean War as gun collectors. Fact is many folks liked it, while others did not. I have heard both views from guys who "aquired" and used them in Korea. Personally it would not have been my choice, but there are thousands of graves full of proof that it could do the job.

Whatever the case they are fun to handle and shoot.
 
Drachenblut said:
*ahems* With respect purple. I knew gentlemen in the Korean War who were issued these. They said, it took half a mag to stop a running man. I cannot state facts to validate, but my understanding is it's cartridge could not get through even minor cover. So, thank you but no thanks. I will stick with higher power cartridges and carbines. Note, I will also not buy a Spanish Destroyer in 9mm Largo either.
Click to expand...

Audie Murphy (most decorated American Soldier of WW2) used the M1 Carbine in WW2. He "knocked out" 240 German Soldiers, knocked out 6 tanks, took many prisoners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy
 
Our people liked to carry the M1/M2 Carbines on night patrols in Korea where the requirement was to travel light and quiet, move fast, and carry a lot of close range firepower.

For a good read on various US infantry weapons try the book, "US Infantry Weapons in Combat", available from Scott Duff Publications. This book contains 65 first person accounts of combat experiences in WW2 and Korea using the standard US infantry weapons. Some general impressions that come through:

M1 Garand- powerful, reliable,and accurate. Universally liked and respected.

Thompson SMG- hardhitting and a good killer at short range. Best used up to 50 yds. Very heavy to carry along with the ammo load. Tended to be discarded in favour of the Garand or Carbine.

BAR- powerful and reliable. A b#itch to carry along with the ammo load, but a good piece to have.

German MG42- held in awe on account of high rate of fire, hitting power, and quick change barrel. Why couldn't we have had them?

Carbine. Light and handy with high firepower at close range. Best up to 150 yds and weak in accuracy and hitting power after that in comparison to the Garand. Invariably compared to the Garand and found wanting on this basis. One account of short range effectiveness on patrol combat; " I could carry 300 rds of ammo and at night the ranges were short, 15-40 ft tops. You hear stories about the Chinese being shot with carbines in their winter clothing and they just brushed it off. I have shot Chinese in all their winter gear with an M2 Carbine, and those rounds had gone completely through them, in the front and out the back. I know because I had to search them for maps and documents after I shot them." A contrasting account: " the heavy jungle would deflect or even stop the bullets and they just didn't hit hard enough. If you hit a Jap, he just might get back up! I saw them take 3 or 4 rounds from a carbine and just keep coming. I got rid of my Carbine for the first Garand I could find. When you shot them with the Garand, they stayed down".

The Carbine was intended to be a replacement for the .45 Pistol to be issued to people like weapons crews, drivers,etc. It was not intended to be used as a rifle, yet it was and that is how it was measured. I suppose it might have been better compared to something like the 9mm STEN, AKA "Stench Gun". Hitting power, accuracy and effective range of the Carbine were better than the STEN and it was a more reliable piece. But people get to use what they are issued and form their opinions on that basis.
 
I wonder how well liked the carbine would have been if they simply chambered it in .45ACP? One less round to supply. Of course that would have meant they would have to use non corrosive primers. But that would have been easy enough to do.
 
There is no argument I hold, now after some more research, of the M1 Carbine's abilities as a weapon in the role it was meant to fill. I just prefer not to deal with the cartridge or carbine. Are there others we can discuss?
 
I suggest you buy a book like "Small Arms of the World" (out of print, but available on eBay or elsewhere) and make a list of "worthy" carbines. The website "Carbines for Collectors" is another good source.
 
Drachenblut said:
There is no argument I hold, now after some more research, of the M1 Carbine's abilities as a weapon in the role it was meant to fill. I just prefer not to deal with the cartridge or carbine. Are there others we can discuss?
Click to expand...

Heres one for you to discuss. How about my original post on a Mk1 cavalry carbine. You set it in your OP as one you considered. You didnt respond when i asked what its value was in good condition. I have to assume no response means you are looking for donations maybe. In that case i can only send some 8X10 glossies in the mail to start a photo album, if you pay postage. :wave:
 
Depending on how deep your pockets are, one could go shopping for the following as a starter kit:
Winchester M1894 PCMR (one on the EE right now for 900 skins)

Czech Mauser VZ33

Czech Mauser G33/40 produced for Wermacht Alpine troops after the Nazis decided to "appropriate and enlighten" the Czechs (real deep pockets for these)

Spanish FR7 Mauser conversions to 7.62 (not so deep pockets)

There are other obscure Mauser carbine variants around, but you don't see them in the retail trade any more. After WW1 most armies went away from both the long barreled infantry rifles and short cavalry/artillery carbines and settled on a mid-length general purpose rifle like the M1903 Springfield, M98K Mauser, and M38 Swede Mauser.

A footnote on the M1 Carbine. I got my first one in 1965 and have enjoyed playing with them over the years. I've even built several up fom parts which makes an interesting project. I never thought seriously about shooting anything much more than rabbits with them. On the other hand, I wouldn't volunteer to get shot with one, even @ 200 yds.;)
 
Very nice. Thank you. I was also looking into the Iranian M-49 carbine, are these in existence here in Canada? How much would one go for?

Thank you,
Drachenblut
 
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