cheap way to foreform new .303 brass?

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kayaker1

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Opps I mean Fireform!

I have a new (to me) No4Mk1 that has been sporterized and I am keen to reload for it.
I have no access to reloading gear right now so will be using a Lee Loader (neck size only, so fireformed cases are preferable).

I want to buy some new WW brass but can't FL size it first. I would like to fireform it to my chamber before making up 'regular' loads.

Are there any suggestions for low cost fireforming?

I was thinking about a light load of pistol power (5-8grs) with a filler and wax plug. Would this generate enough pressure to fireform the case to the chamber specs?

Years ago and friend and I loaded for his .303 with 75gr 7.65mm (.32acp) lead pistol bullets over 7grs of Somchem MP200 (fast pistol powder), we topped the powder by filling the case with with corn meal and seated the bullets, creating a compressed squib load that kept the powder against the flash hole (and was 6MOA). This would certainly serve my purpose BUT I was wondering if you guys have any other techniques of fireforming that are cheap on components?

Has anyone used a light load (for example normal .303 laod data minimum load for any given suitable powder, less 10%) with a cream of wheat/corn meal filler and neck length wax plug to fireform?

Any advice appreciated!
:shotgun:
Thanks
 
Fire forming is more something to worry about if you are shooting for score or trying to do some serious tack driving. That ain't likely going to be the case with the rifle you have.

As long as the cases that you are using will fit in the chamber your good to go. Or buy factory ammo and shoot it. PRESTO!! Fire formed and you got to have fun making some noise doing it.
 
true...

You have a good point, I have some factory ammo that I will shoot but I am also a born tinkerer! :D

Cheers
 
If you do fireform some brass, I found that the method you speak of works well. About eight grains of Red Dot, cream of wheat, and a ball of wax. If you lightly lube the case, it will headspace perfectly after firing. If you don't lube the case, well, then there isn't much point. The primer will back out, showing you how much headspace you have. Also, don't aim the fireforming loads at anything valuable! I tried them out on a tar can, and they blow holes right through it at ten feet. Personally, I wouldn't bother trying to fireform new brass. Just load the fresh cases, and shoot them.
 
Fireforming is for blowing out brass to fit a chamber that's not the same as the headstamp without using expander dies and whatnot. When I first read the title of this thread, I wondered to myself, "hmm, I wonder what parent case he's making .303 brass from?"

If you've got fresh .303 brass, just load it and shoot it. I have and use a lee loader, and it's not all THAT different from my normal dies.
 
Thanks all,

Perhaps I'll just load new brass with plinking loads and be done with it! Accuracy difference can't that different!

Its interesting to get different perspectives and techniques though.

Cheers
 
check out the bullet barn for 95gr 32acp bullets, 500 for $50, work up from 4 gr of unique
brass should last a long time using this load, plus you can get up to 1400 loads from 1 lb of powder
 
Bobby Ironsights said:
Fireforming is for blowing out brass to fit a chamber that's not the same as the headstamp without using expander dies and whatnot. When I first read the title of this thread, I wondered to myself, "hmm, I wonder what parent case he's making .303 brass from?"

If you've got fresh .303 brass, just load it and shoot it. I have and use a lee loader, and it's not all THAT different from my normal dies.
Click to expand...
Fireforming also included firing brass to perfectly fit the chamber of a specific rifle, not necessarily changing it to something other than the headstamp. Fireformed brass aids in accuracy when you only resize the necks or partially full length size the brass.
 
yep

Originally Posted by Bobby Ironsights
Fireforming is for blowing out brass to fit a chamber that's not the same as the headstamp without using expander dies and whatnot. When I first read the title of this thread, I wondered to myself, "hmm, I wonder what parent case he's making .303 brass from?"

If you've got fresh .303 brass, just load it and shoot it. I have and use a lee loader, and it's not all THAT different from my normal dies.

"Fireforming also included firing brass to perfectly fit the chamber of a specific rifle, not necessarily changing it to something other than the headstamp. Fireformed brass aids in accuracy when you only resize the necks or partially full length size the brass. "

:agree:Thats what I was meaning to imply - fitting new brass to the 'typically large' lee enfield chamber and then only neck size after that with the 'custom fit' brass in order to prolong case life.

Thanks n cheers
 
The blast from a rifle primer is pretty impressive. Fire a primed case at a piece of paper near the muzzle. It will blow a hole in it. Do it at night and you will see flame at the muzzle. Imagine what it does in a confined space like a case.

Load the Unique under a 32 bullet and have fun. Skip the cas efiller. It might actually cause problems.
 
no case filler??

Ganderite,

I did read that with fast pistol powder that no filler was required at all, regadless of power volume - is this true?

i used it in the past just to be sure but it seems like an unnecesssary hassle with pistol powders even small loads of say 5-10grs of the right pistol powder?

Cheers
 
I would agree that the use of fillers is seldom of much benefit and could cause problems.

Exactly how it preforms in a necked case would worry me. Does it "flow" out of the case nicely without doing weird things to the pressures or will it compress or "jam" against the shoulder and stretch the case near the base making seperation a possibility? In a straight case I would be less concerned.

There are a lot of loads in the manuals that use charges that are a fraction of the case volume and have never seen them advocate fillers. I've made loads like the ones you mention for indoor shooting and don't use fillers. Maybe if you see hang fires or have other signs of poor ignition it would be something to think about but I would probably switch powders first.
 
Grtwhthntr said:
Fireforming also included firing brass to perfectly fit the chamber of a specific rifle, not necessarily changing it to something other than the headstamp. Fireformed brass aids in accuracy when you only resize the necks or partially full length size the brass.
Click to expand...

The Law of Diminishing Returns

Yes and no. Benchresters fireform for accuracy, measure runout, crimp pressure and leade in 10 thousandths of an inch. They do this because the difference between first and halfway to last is a few hundreths of an inch in group size.

He's shooting a sporterized enfield, reloading with a lee loader, and wants to know a cheap way to fireform.

Fireforming for accuracy in this guys case; amounts to doing an amputation with a chainsaw and then mulling over what gauge needle to use when sewing up the stump. It's like wondering what temperature he should warm the tires for the best skidpad coefficient, before driving a 1972 toyota corolla to the quik-e-mart for a quart of milk. It's like using a powder trickler and a 4-beam scale to make up loads for shotshells.

It's a lot of effort for no real return and I think you guys are doing him a disservice by not pointing that out to someone who pretty obviously is new to reloading, if not shooting in general.

I have a way to make the brass last longer, fireform with a bullet over powder into a target. The brass will instantly gain one firing greater longevity. With a lee loader and an old enfield sporter the real question should be, which components are on sale, and where?

If the OP still wants to fireform, knock yourself out, but I think that a beginner should also get a little advice like, "don't kill yourself over trivialities with this gear you're using, it's not worth it". Or something really important like, "always bring bug dope with you to the shooting range". I wish someone would have given me that last little piece of advice when I was a newb.

**note, I'm not trying to say that an old enfield isn't worth shooting. Even if it's almost completely shot out, and only keeps itself within 3 or 4 moa, that's still the palm of a mans hand at a hundred yards and alot better than most people can shoot with open sights, and good enough for lots of fun at the range***
 
to clarify...

I really like these replys and the info, thanks to everyone...

Bobby, I am not trying to kill myself over any trivialities. I am an enthusiast and have been shooting since 1990, have reloaded for over 10 calibres and have shot 8 species of big game. I am not saying I am an expert at all, but not a beginner. I also have very little exprience reloading for .303, barring the experience I related above with a friends rifle in the early 90's.

I ask because I have had a gap of a few years from shooting and am getting back into it.

I also ask for the most important reason - its interesting. Most keen sooters are not trying to be as efficient as possible, thats why we like to tinker; out of interest. I absolutley realize the limitations of my lee enfield and reloading capacity. Diminishing returns are relative to how much enjoyment you get from the sport. If efficiency was the only criteria we would need nothing more than 12ga, .270, .22lr and .375holland in long guns, loaded with decent factory ammo, you can easily hunt anything with those 4 without ever seeing a reloading set up - thats efficient. You could also shoot a number of various gun games with those too. So why do anything else with the sport or hobby?

Why do we choose to mess about with others - because its enjoyment on a personal level. I choose to fireform my cases not because I am planning to beat David Tubb but because I find it enjoyable to tinker with rifles and reloading and like to do it safely - hence my questions. I also ask these questions in order to correspond with like minded people who enjoy debating and enquiring about the ins-and-outs of these details.

Of course I could just buy factory loads, shoot them and reload, but many people choose to go a step further to increase their enjoyment of shooting and ballistics as I am wanting to do! :D

Back to hotting up my '72 toyota...

Cheers
 
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I agree with others, load it, shoot it. instant fireforming. Only neck size the cases when reloading.
Bench rest shooters are not happy unless the single hole in the target just gets a tad larger with each shot.
Expecting that from a No4 is day dreaming.
 
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