Cheek slap?

Mi2age

Mi2age

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Hi,

Somewhat new to Trap shooting (been about a dozen times maybe). I've been researching something that's happening to me and I think it is called "cheek slap" ?

Basically when I shoot my Remington 870 Express, my cheek is really sore after about 3 or 4 rounds. One time, it was visibly swollen and really tender. However, when I shoot my Remington Versa Max Sportsman, I don't seem to really have this issue. I know the common answer seems to be "a problem with fit" but does anyone know what part of the fit might be the problem? Should I buy a slip on comb riser? (Been looking at the Beartooth Comb Riser Kit) Or is my problem more likely to be Length of Pull? (In which case, I should look maybe look into a LOP adjustment kit where it adds some spacers between the stock and the butt pad).

Any insights veterans might have are welcome.

Thank you!
 
it's due to a poor fit. The shotgun does not fit you. a wood stock may fit you better. I had similar issue with the 870 composite stock. I changed it out with a wood butt stock, and that solved the problem. Google cheek slap, and you will see how others address cheek slap problems.
I have found that all Mossberg 500 stocks, wood or plastic, fits me better.
 
Gun123 said:
it's due to a poor fit. The shotgun does not fit you. a wood stock may fit you better. I had similar issue with the 870 composite stock. I changed it out with a wood butt stock, and that solved the problem. Google cheek slap, and you will see how others address cheek slap problems.
I have found that all Mossberg 500 stocks, wood or plastic, fits me better.
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Thanks, Gun123. I do realize it's poor fit. However, I wanted to know if anyone knows particularly which part of the "fit" is the problem. Is it usually because the comb is too low? or the LOP is too short, etc? Want to see if I can tweak this stock instead of just replacing it outright. Thanks.
 
Mi2age said:
Thanks, Gun123. I do realize it's poor fit. However, I wanted to know if anyone knows particularly which part of the "fit" is the problem. Is it usually because the comb is too low? or the LOP is too short, etc? Want to see if I can tweak this stock instead of just replacing it outright. Thanks.
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In my case, it was due to the comb being too low. I also thought the stock was too thin. The wood stock I put on was higher and thicker. I tried cheek pads but never found the right one. They were either too high, causing my eyes nit seeing the site or not high enough to make a difference.
 
I had the same problem my 887 nitromag...battered my face , i hated it with a firey passion, then one day i found an LOP kit for it added an inch? And all gone and good to go
 
sledman8002002 said:
Changing the pitch of the recoil pad is where I would start. Loosen the 2 pad screws enough to slip a quarter for a shim between the butt stock and the top of the recoil pad. Snug the screws up and give it a test. I've gone as much as 2 shims before.
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Thanks, Sledman. I'll give this a try when I get a chance.


Gun123 said:
In my case, it was due to the comb being too low. I also thought the stock was too thin. The wood stock I put on was higher and thicker. I tried cheek pads but never found the right one. They were either too high, causing my eyes nit seeing the site or not high enough to make a difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional info, Gun123. Yeah, I do find that the top of the stock on the 870 really comes up to a narrow point too. The Versa Max is much better in this regard.
 
Poor fit or poor hold. I get the occasional slap but its cuz I didn't shoulder it right. At the farm range we call clays from a carry position to make it more challenging. If you don't get it up right you take a hit...and probably miss the bird.
 
S-357 said:
I had the same problem my 887 nitromag...battered my face , i hated it with a firey passion, then one day i found an LOP kit for it added an inch? And all gone and good to go
Click to expand...

More good info! Thanks. Sounds like it could be combination of LOP and comb height. Hmmmmmm............
 
fiddler said:
Poor fit or poor hold. I get the occasional slap but its cuz I didn't shoulder it right. At the farm range we call clays from a carry position to make it more challenging. If you don't get it up right you take a hit...and probably miss the bird.
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I see, I am quite new so poor form could also be a factor. However I shoot the same way (I think) with the Versa Max and don't really have nearly as much issue with it so I'm thinking there's definitely something up with the fit on the 870.
 
I too think its a pitch issue.

check out the article : Home Fitting Your Shotgun Pitch AUTHOR: SSG Ryan Hadden, US Army Marksmanship Unit Shotgun team.


shotgun pitch jpg.jpg
 

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Fireguy0991 said:
I too think its a pitch issue.

check out the article : Home Fitting Your Shotgun Pitch AUTHOR: SSG Ryan Hadden, US Army Marksmanship Unit Shotgun team.


View attachment 290235
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Excellent diagram ...

I've helped a lot of people with shotgun fit. Most often and the first place to start is with the pitch. Most of us have a heavy chest compared to the folks of bygone days. Many of the older shotguns and off the shelf lower priced guns have old stock dimensions. Most of us need negative pitch. Compare your gun to the diagram and if you have a neutral pitch, try some negative pitch. I saw quarters suggested, which works, I use flat washers, between the wood and the recoil pad. As a permanent solution, you can cut the stock with the correct pitch or you can purchase pitch spacers. Many guns are too long (LOP). One well known trap shooter that has done clinics for decades, says that a stock is not too short unless you are poking yourself in the nose. IMHO, when mounted to your shoulder, you should push your face a bit forward on the comb (crawl the stock) and the tip of your nose should be about 1 inch from the thumb.

There are many factors involved in fitting a shotgun properly and there is not a perfect solution for everyone all of the time. I have seen a $10,000 custom stock made by one of the top stock gurus in the USA sitting on a shelf because it didn't work for the shooter.

The important thing is that a shotgun not slap your face and a few simple things can usually remedy that.
 
After either using quarters or washers and you have found what works for you a more long term fix, I would suggest you look at Kick-EEZ pitch spacers.

I think they come in two sizes 1/4" to 1/32" and 1/2" to 1/32"
 
You probably have more than one contributing factor here.
A narrower field comb will be more punishing that a thicker target comb.
Too short can cause cheek slap.
Too gentle a cheek to comb weld will cause slap, this contact must be firm and stay solid throughout the shot. If you do not have a correct sight picture when pressed firmly to the stock it does not fit.
Positive (down) pitch will cause the gun to recoil upwards more sharply while lessening rearward recoil. It will tend to rotate on the butt pad. Combine this with the considerable drop and narrower comb of the field gun and the front of the gun will recoil upwards quite briskly while delivering moderate recoil to the shoulder.
Look at the purpose built trap guns your fellow club members are using, put them side by side on a table and try to determine the common stock features. Pay particular attention to the unaltered original trap guns.
It's possible that a Monte Carlo or raised cheek piece will give you a better fit. Especially if you have a long neck, you may be rolling your cheek over onto the top of the comb on a field gun.
Also a factor is drop at comb vs drop at heel. Most field guns are stocked with noticeable drop, increasing from comb to heel. A different length of pull on this stock will cause a different cheek placement and an adjustment in cheek contact (weld) to get a proper sight picture. This is why trap models have little or no drop , cheek placement will not affect sight picture on these.
Using a comb riser may thicken your comb making it more comfortable, but it will also raise it which will cause your gun to shoot higher.
If possible, try other guns with different stock dimensions and see what feels most comfortable and natural for you. Stock fit is a large and complicated subject, several complete books have been written about this single subject and there are people who make a very good living doing custom stock fitting. Most of us just try to get as close as we can to a natural pointing gun and do our best to make it work. Many trap shooters are constantly changing comb and/or pad adjustments or changing guns in search of the perfect fit to pick up another one or two targets without any clear idea of what they really are looking for. If you find the perfect fitting gun, cherish it and NEVER let it go, you may never find another. Break 'em all.
 
So I was looking at spacing the butt pad just now and I was unsure if I should be adding washers to the bottom of the butt pad or the top?

I think Ashcroft is recommending adding washers to the bottom, but Sledman earlier was recommending washers to the top.

However, I did some more research and found this on another forum:

"When you change the pitch, you are adjusting the butt pad to set more evenly across your shoulder vertically. Thicker chested people need more pitch, thinner people need less. By it contacting as much of your shoulder as possible, you are distributing more recoil evenly across the pad. This takes the jump (face slap) out by making the gun recoil in the direction it should- straight back. Laws of physics says it should go that direction until another force acts on it. In this case, that would be the angle it contacts your shoulder."

That also makes a certain amount of sense as does what Ashcroft said. So I'm a bit confused where I should add washers to. Because for me, when I shoulder the gun, it sits a little high on me and a bit of the top of the buttpad is actually above my shoulder.

And another question, if I add washers behind the buttpad and slip them around the screw, would I risk damaging the stock? I feel a lot of the pressure when firing may be focused at the point the washers contact the stock/pad?

Thanks again, everyone.
 
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