Chinese mauser experts please

[Webley No.5]

Awhile ago I got a Chinese mauser at an auction. I didn’t know much about Chinese Mausers and information seems a bit sparse. So any information on this rifle would be greatly appreciated. My plan was to use it as a project build but I figured I should learn more about it and if it has any value to someone’s collection before I alter it in some way.

It appears to be a chiang shek mauser which is based on the mauser standardmodell

The receiver markings are either partially scrubbed or poorly stamped. It appears to have remnants of an “arsenal 21” stamp from what little I’ve been able to find (but in one place I’ve read the same marking identified as arsenal 41). I attempted to picture it but it is quite faint and may not show up well.

The serial numbers on the barrel and receiver are matching but the double letter prefix is not something I saw on other examples I was able to find. Also the serial numbers were usually shorter. Does have a swastika on the rear sight base but I have read that some of the Chinese arsenals stamped this (to do with Buddhism not as a nazi symbol).

The bolt is mostly non matching (cocking piece matches the safety). The handle has an R4 and Z in circle stamped underneath. I was under the impression that Z in circle was a Czech marking? The bolt also has remnants of bluing while the rifle appears parkerized.

The stock doesn’t appear to be European walnut (definitely not laminated), seems consistent with pictures and descriptions of the wood used by the Chinese. The hand guard was broken in multiple pieces when I got it so it’s wearing one I made.

The muzzle looked like someone had accidentally stuck a stick welder to it and then pull it off, it cleaned up well by cutting back 1/8in and recrowning. Bore is surprisingly good for what I’ve heard of Chinese Mausers. Dark in the grooves but very prevalent rifling. Shot about 3MOA with hornady ammo (which is roughly on par with how well I shoot with irons as I’m rarely below 2MOA).

The trigger guard and magazine is all mismatched, as well when I load 5 rounds, the 5th is very hard to get in and difficult to feed. I’m guessing the magazine parts need some fitting.

Pictures

Any information appreciated, I apologize for the canted pictures of the receiver marking but it’s the only way I could get anything to show up on camera.

 

[Hitzy]

Looks like an old rusty mess barreled action someone tried to restore with a variety of parts. You can still see the putting on the receiver after it being refinished. It's blasted and blued from the look of the pics, not parkerized.
If it shoots good enjoy it. No collector value there. Not sure what you want to modify it into, but it's as good as it's going to get the way it is

 

[Brutus]

Regards the 5 round stubbornness: it could be the magazine spring coming loose bottom of the follower.
Once it's loose and can shift position could very well turn your magazine capacity to 4 versus 5.


Maybe?

 

[jbmauser]

I would be very leery of using a Chinese Mauser for any sort of high pressure project. Maybe they're made of quality materials but man are they crude. I've had a number of them over the years and the fit and finish on most is absolutely horrendous. Buy a quality action. Why put all that work into something of questionable quality? For 3-350 you can buy a complete FN M98 rifle. Sell off the barrel, stock and whatever else you don't need and you'll have a quality action to build off of.

If you're just going to tinker with this the way it is and shoot it then that's a different story. Go for it. I just wouldn't pour too much money or time into it.

 

[Webley No.5]

So what I’m hearing is I should ream it for 8mm rem mag? Hahahaha

Well it sounds like it isn’t worth much as I suspected. I would like to completely disassemble and do a full refinish as it sounds like no one will be upset if something goes wrong in the process. I’d like to try re-blueing a gun. If the chamber is huge I might try set it back and clean it up. Mostly just a practice gun.

 

[bearhunter]

So what I’m hearing is I should ream it for 8mm rem mag? Hahahaha

Well it sounds like it isn’t worth much as I suspected. I would like to completely disassemble and do a full refinish as it sounds like no one will be upset if something goes wrong in the process. I’d like to try re-blueing a gun. If the chamber is huge I might try set it back and clean it up. Mostly just a practice gun.

OP, your rifle is dripping with history. Leave it alone, if the bore is OK.

As for the quality of the components, I saw some test results from an experiment done by Kuhnhausen around 1988?, just before he published his excellent book/shop manual. I also was present when PO Ackley did some tests on several different vintage Chinese built receivers and a bunch of receivers made for China by Czechoslovakia, which I believe is where your example was made.

Unless the receivers had some sort of damage, such as deep rust or cracks, they held up every bit as well as 98s made in Europe.

Ackley did tests that resulted in catastrophic failure. They were almost identical to those done on European built receivers.

They did come to the same conclusion that because there were so many other good quality and much better finished actions available, for similar prices, that the Chinese versions shouldn't be used, unless they were in similar condition.

Some of these actions were extremely well finished and a few of them can be found in the forerunner to the 270 Winchester version, (different)

The Chinese were one of the first nations to use the 6.7mm (.277) diameter bullets in a case with very similar capacity to the 30-06 Springfield.

Of course, the 6.7 cases weren't interchangeable with the 270, yes I tried, but performance was similar.

IMHO, that action would require way more work than what would come out of it would be worth.

It's plenty strong enough though.

Read up on the history of that rifle and you will be amazed as to what it's possibly been through.

 

[kjohn]

Years ago, I bought 4 or 5 Chinese rifles from Century for around $15 each. One was an FN receiver! My goodness, the wear on those rifles was something to behold. One has a piece of metal shaped somewhat like a small funnel in the muzzle end of the barrel. The butt plates were badly worn on a couple. I still have them, having taken a few parts off for other Mausers. Those were the days!

 

[gaff]

what those fellows said + most of them had the muzzles welded shut and were sold as parts. I remember going to a fellow's house in Cochrane AB to buy a rifle and he had hundreds of those broken down for parts in his garage. they were all in very rough condition when they came from the importer.
the 1990 International firearms catalog lists them at $19.95 Condition poor (For parts only).

 

[Claven2]

I knew a guy in Ottawa that had a few cheap chinese 98's and tried to blow them up to see what they could take. It took a lot. I would have zero concerns on the safety of shooting these if the receivers are OK.

For the challenge of it, I re-worked one of these last year, a 1936 dated chinese 98 bare received, same markings as the OP's - TONS of hand fit and finishing to make it cosmetically the same as a commercial FN-style receiver. I put a match .308 barrel on it, used a CZ bolt body, a jumble of other parts from different 98's from my parts bin that mostly needed work (which I did), welded on a commercial talley handle to the bolt, glass bedded in a euro walnut stock, etc. It built into a nice .308 hunting rifle - but I did my own smithing and my labor didn't cost me anything. I don't recommend anyone else try this - but it IS possible to make these into a nice rifle if the receiver isn't worn out.

The biggest problem I've seen is many of the original Chinese bolts were pretty beat.

 

[Webley No.5]

I have no concerns about strength for its caliber, I won’t be changing to higher pressure cartridges. My plan is to reblue parts and clean up the wood. If the chamber is terrible I might cut it back or convert to 7.92x33kurz. If I can tune it shoot well I may consider repro sniper build. Does anyone know if all the 98 actions use the same barrel thread? Would everything from a G98, k98, vz24, m48 etc thread in? In case I need a new barrel?

 

[Potashminer]

I have no concerns about strength for its caliber, I won’t be changing to higher pressure cartridges. My plan is to reblue parts and clean up the wood. If the chamber is terrible I might cut it back or convert to 7.92x33kurz. If I can tune it shoot well I may consider repro sniper build. Does anyone know if all the 98 actions use the same barrel thread? Would everything from a G98, k98, vz24, m48 etc thread in? In case I need a new barrel?

I had what I think was an m48 Yugo barrel in 8x57 - that NOS barrel had a "safety breech" - so I filed that off to fit to a "regular" Mauser - other than that, I think the threads, diameter and tenon length was the same?? But I have never worked on a Chinese one to know if they are the same as the European made ones. As I recall, that barrel ended up slightly shorter than a regular barrel from other Mausers.

 

[gaff]

your action should take all k98 barrels with the correct thread. In reality, different manufacturers have slight variations and might require fitting.