Chokes & shells
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Your choke manufacturer should have provided some info with their product - I know most will tell you slugs and buckshot are out (I know I saw slugs specifically manufactured for full choke guns, though). Mine recommends anything less than BB (inclusive) in my extra-full steel.
From a fully choked (0.035" of constriction or greater) 12 gauge shotgun you can shoot Foster type slugs, buckshot and any size of birdshot you wish, so long as it is soft shot (lead, Tungsten-polymer or bismuth). What you cannot shoot is hard shot of any size (steel, tungsten-iron, HeavyShot, etc.). The slugs may not shoot accurately through a fully choked gun and the buckshot may not pattern that well.
Be sure not to shoot shells longer than your chamber length (no 3 inch shells in a 2 3/4 inch chamber, eg.) and don't shoot modern SAAMI or CIP spec shells in shotguns built much before WWII without a gunsmith's opinion on suitability.
Sharptail
Be sure not to shoot shells longer than your chamber length (no 3 inch shells in a 2 3/4 inch chamber, eg.) and don't shoot modern SAAMI or CIP spec shells in shotguns built much before WWII without a gunsmith's opinion on suitability.
Sharptail
I'm not so sure about Sharptail's recommendation. (No offence intended). My understanding and advice from my PAL instructor when I asked the same question about a year ago, is:
To Protect the gun, read the choke manufacturer's recommendation. Hard shot shell can deform and ruin a soft choke. (Much like previous post says)
To Protect the shooter (More important IMHO) NEVER shoot slugs out of anythin but a Cylinder choke. (The PAL examiner was strict on this one, but my instructor said you could go as far as IC with slugs). The point being at best you could blow the choke out of the gun because the slug may get blocked by the choke. At worst you may blow out your barrel and kill yourself.
When you think about this one logically, assuming you have steel safe chokes (my rem chokes and the stock ones on my stoeger SXS are both steel shot safe) you can shoot any kind of ball shot from the smallest bird and clay shot to 0000 buckshot. The little, or big balls will fit through even a fully choked barrel. However, imagin a solid piece of lead flowing through a barrel at pretty close the the same dimensions as the inside of the barrel and then getting contricted by the choke. BLAMMO! I imagine that a sabot will give you some measure of protection from a barrel blowout, but why risk it.
Im my personal experience, I have shot roughly 500 slugs out of my 870 with an IC rem choke and have had 0 problems. I dare not go further though. Why risk damaging the choke, gun or shooter by pushing slugs out through a contrictor?
To Protect the gun, read the choke manufacturer's recommendation. Hard shot shell can deform and ruin a soft choke. (Much like previous post says)
To Protect the shooter (More important IMHO) NEVER shoot slugs out of anythin but a Cylinder choke. (The PAL examiner was strict on this one, but my instructor said you could go as far as IC with slugs). The point being at best you could blow the choke out of the gun because the slug may get blocked by the choke. At worst you may blow out your barrel and kill yourself.
When you think about this one logically, assuming you have steel safe chokes (my rem chokes and the stock ones on my stoeger SXS are both steel shot safe) you can shoot any kind of ball shot from the smallest bird and clay shot to 0000 buckshot. The little, or big balls will fit through even a fully choked barrel. However, imagin a solid piece of lead flowing through a barrel at pretty close the the same dimensions as the inside of the barrel and then getting contricted by the choke. BLAMMO! I imagine that a sabot will give you some measure of protection from a barrel blowout, but why risk it.
Im my personal experience, I have shot roughly 500 slugs out of my 870 with an IC rem choke and have had 0 problems. I dare not go further though. Why risk damaging the choke, gun or shooter by pushing slugs out through a contrictor?
Drvrage, no offense taken. Debate is good, and we may actually learn something. Let me state that I was talking about a choked barrel, not choke tubes. With choke tubes, by all means follow the manufacturers advice.
My post was written from my experience, but in order to add credibility to my point of view, I have just removed a Sellier & Bellot 2 3/4 inch 32 gram (1 1/8th oz.) Foster type slug from its shell, and have taken my calipers to it.
First let us agree that the nominal bore dimension of a 12 gauge shotgun is 0.729 inches. The actual dimension may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but 0.729 is 12 gauge.
Secondly, let us take for granted that a full choke barrel will rarely have more than 0.040 inches of constriction. You may argue for 0.045, but by the time you reach 0.050 inches of constriction, you start to "blow" the pattern.
Let us then look at the slug. It has a cylindrical centre section with ten angled vanes along its side (makes it a "rifled" slug) and a ring around its base just slightly greater in diameter than the vanes (the largest diameter of any part of the slug).
The diameter of the slug at its base is 0.740 inches, so already we have a problem - the base of the unfired slug is 0.011 inches larger than a nominal 12 gauge, and we haven't even reached the choke yet.
The base ring is only 0.102 inches deep, and the lead is soft enough to indent with your thumbnail. Clearly this ring is meant to deform and compress to the bore dimension.
Now let's look at the vanes. The diameter of the slug measured at the widest point from vane to vane is 0.728 inches, just less than a nominal 12 gauge. The vanes are 0.060 inches thick and should be more easily compressable than the base ring.
Finally, we measure the part that everyone is worried about, that solid central core. Measuring between the vanes at the top of the slug, the calipers show the diameter of the central core to be 0.640 inches. Measuring further down the slug (harder to do accurately with my calipers) I get a reading of up to 0.655 inches.
An 0.729 bore with an 0.040 constriction leaves an 0.689 hole for the slug to pass through. That central core is only 0.655 max.
It is my contention that the vanes and base ring of the slug will easily deform (compress) to the diameter of the barrel. Otherwise, why make the base ring oversize? The "solid" (it isn't, it has a hollow base) central core of the slug is small enough to pass through even the tightest of full choke barrels.
Perhaps it is the increased amount of compression of the vanes which make some Foster type slugs not shoot as accurately out of some fully choked barrels, I really do not know. What I do know now is that the slug is being deformed and compressed from the moment it is fired (unless you have a radically back bored shotgun). The slug, however, is not going to bulge or burst a barrel all on its own.
I suspect this sort of safety margin is also demanded by any slug manufacturers lawyers - fully choked shotguns are the most common, and to produce a product which would harm them would be to invite a never ending chain of lawsuits from unhappy customers (or their estates!).
I think the same logic applies to choke tubes as well, but always go with what the manufacturer says in this regard.
p.s. The instructor for my PAL course (nice fellow) told me that it was unsafe to shoot 2 3/4 inch shells out of a 3 inch chamber. That too, is false.
With all respect,
Sharptail
My post was written from my experience, but in order to add credibility to my point of view, I have just removed a Sellier & Bellot 2 3/4 inch 32 gram (1 1/8th oz.) Foster type slug from its shell, and have taken my calipers to it.
First let us agree that the nominal bore dimension of a 12 gauge shotgun is 0.729 inches. The actual dimension may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but 0.729 is 12 gauge.
Secondly, let us take for granted that a full choke barrel will rarely have more than 0.040 inches of constriction. You may argue for 0.045, but by the time you reach 0.050 inches of constriction, you start to "blow" the pattern.
Let us then look at the slug. It has a cylindrical centre section with ten angled vanes along its side (makes it a "rifled" slug) and a ring around its base just slightly greater in diameter than the vanes (the largest diameter of any part of the slug).
The diameter of the slug at its base is 0.740 inches, so already we have a problem - the base of the unfired slug is 0.011 inches larger than a nominal 12 gauge, and we haven't even reached the choke yet.
The base ring is only 0.102 inches deep, and the lead is soft enough to indent with your thumbnail. Clearly this ring is meant to deform and compress to the bore dimension.
Now let's look at the vanes. The diameter of the slug measured at the widest point from vane to vane is 0.728 inches, just less than a nominal 12 gauge. The vanes are 0.060 inches thick and should be more easily compressable than the base ring.
Finally, we measure the part that everyone is worried about, that solid central core. Measuring between the vanes at the top of the slug, the calipers show the diameter of the central core to be 0.640 inches. Measuring further down the slug (harder to do accurately with my calipers) I get a reading of up to 0.655 inches.
An 0.729 bore with an 0.040 constriction leaves an 0.689 hole for the slug to pass through. That central core is only 0.655 max.
It is my contention that the vanes and base ring of the slug will easily deform (compress) to the diameter of the barrel. Otherwise, why make the base ring oversize? The "solid" (it isn't, it has a hollow base) central core of the slug is small enough to pass through even the tightest of full choke barrels.
Perhaps it is the increased amount of compression of the vanes which make some Foster type slugs not shoot as accurately out of some fully choked barrels, I really do not know. What I do know now is that the slug is being deformed and compressed from the moment it is fired (unless you have a radically back bored shotgun). The slug, however, is not going to bulge or burst a barrel all on its own.
I suspect this sort of safety margin is also demanded by any slug manufacturers lawyers - fully choked shotguns are the most common, and to produce a product which would harm them would be to invite a never ending chain of lawsuits from unhappy customers (or their estates!).
I think the same logic applies to choke tubes as well, but always go with what the manufacturer says in this regard.
p.s. The instructor for my PAL course (nice fellow) told me that it was unsafe to shoot 2 3/4 inch shells out of a 3 inch chamber. That too, is false.
With all respect,
Sharptail
drvrage, your PAL instructor was wrong. I wonder if your PAL instructor also taught another poster on this board who offered up the same incorrect information.
I have fired slugs from choke tubes tighter than IC including up to full without ill effect. My predator control gun on the farm has a modified choke tube primarily because I want improved buckshot performance but I've fired hundreds of slugs through it. As sharptail pointed out, lead slugs (and shot) will compress to fit through a tight choke.
From what I've learned talking to reps from Briley and Trulock the risk comes from putting steel through choke tubes that are too tight. Steel doesn't compress as well and can damage the tube threads or even bulge the barrel. There are all sorts of warnings on steel products and on chokes. Presumably if a similar concern was created by slugs there would be warnings on slug boxes as well.
I have fired slugs from choke tubes tighter than IC including up to full without ill effect. My predator control gun on the farm has a modified choke tube primarily because I want improved buckshot performance but I've fired hundreds of slugs through it. As sharptail pointed out, lead slugs (and shot) will compress to fit through a tight choke.
From what I've learned talking to reps from Briley and Trulock the risk comes from putting steel through choke tubes that are too tight. Steel doesn't compress as well and can damage the tube threads or even bulge the barrel. There are all sorts of warnings on steel products and on chokes. Presumably if a similar concern was created by slugs there would be warnings on slug boxes as well.
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Sharptail has it right.
.....and not to put down any specific PAL instructor, but if the content they are teaching is what they have been given by the firearms safety course, it is not always correct... it may be correct for the firearms safety course, but that isn't always what is correct in real life. I have been out of the instructor mode for quite some time now - maybe it has been improved. Unfortunately there were some real morons running the program and stupid policies were created here in B.C.
.....and not to put down any specific PAL instructor, but if the content they are teaching is what they have been given by the firearms safety course, it is not always correct... it may be correct for the firearms safety course, but that isn't always what is correct in real life. I have been out of the instructor mode for quite some time now - maybe it has been improved. Unfortunately there were some real morons running the program and stupid policies were created here in B.C.
Wowzers ! Thanks for dropping science Sharptail. The lawyers argument and the easily deforming slug argument and your very well defined (read measured) arguments have utterly convinced me. Now that I think about it in this new light, I suspect that at worst you may wreck a choke and at best would have a poor accuracy shot. But I think you're right. The soft "finned slug" would likely deform before the steel of the barrel would. Thanks for the correction guys. 
I also cut out a remmy rifled slug to see for myself and with my fingers and my desks help, I could puch the slug through my fell choke. I stand corrected. And yes, my examiner was potentialy a dumbass. (Probably likley just overly cautious).
I also cut out a remmy rifled slug to see for myself and with my fingers and my desks help, I could puch the slug through my fell choke. I stand corrected. And yes, my examiner was potentialy a dumbass. (Probably likley just overly cautious).- Location
- Not really sure.
I'v put 3 boxes of rifled slugs through my full choked 12 gauge, no ill effect and still reasonably accurate.
Now fellas could anyone tell me where I could get my hands on some bismuth shells?.
I have an ithaca pump action comming to me in a few days and I want to feed it strictly lead and bismuth.
Now fellas could anyone tell me where I could get my hands on some bismuth shells?.
I have an ithaca pump action comming to me in a few days and I want to feed it strictly lead and bismuth.
Tyockell18 said:
Kent's Tungsten Matrix is also soft like lead and may be easier to find.
http://kentgamebore.com/products/tungsten_matrix_wat.asp
