clabrough johnstone shotgun info needed

[pointandshoot]

Hey all, a buddy of mine has tossed an old clabrough & johnstone 12ga shotgun my way and would like to get some information on it. Unfortunately it's missing a few key parts such as the firing pins and the screws that retain the pins, butt plate, the forearm has been "modified", the stock looks to have a slight crack in it, and one of the barrels has a ding in it. The serial number looks like 363 31 to me if that helps with possible year of manufacture. Is there any sense of trying to source parts for it and would it even be advisable to shoot modern ammo in it if it was complete (assuming it has a 2 3/4 chamber)? Does this old girl have any value if I were to hunt down parts or is it one of the European mass produced sxs's for cheap and whoever wanted could put their name on the side of it. Thanks in advance

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmogz9qxc7d0op2/20210624_204823.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kawzpv7h8ezpwnf/20210624_204833.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3giucvc53bh94v/20210624_204842.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tgsw7m0rm75yrwp/20210624_204903.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysimu4nv58f4wjm/20210624_204923.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5d0yt2yinik38mf/20210624_204930.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/262n95uv96kymgf/20210624_205008.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7l9tepcj2n0p6hl/20210624_205030.jpg?dl=0

 

[Stephen Nash]

First, the history, with lots of different spellings. John Plumb Clabrough was born in Carlton, Selby, Yorkshire, in 1836. He was the son of Michael Clabrough / Claborough (b.1802), a gunsmith. John P probably apprenticed under his father. In 1862/3 John P emigrated to San Francisco and worked as a gunsmith for Wilson & Evans and then, from 1864 to 1866, for Robert Liddle & Co. In 1867 John P opened his own business sharing a shop with a jeweller at 630 Montgomery Street, San Francisco.

In England in 1868 his brother, Joseph, was recorded as a gunmaker trading as J P Claborough at 5 New Buildings, Price Street, Birmingham. Reportedly, Joseph went to America in 1870 leaving another brother, George, in charge of the Birmingham business. This business supplied the San Francisco business with guns, and to export elsewhere in the USA. The firm later specialized in shotguns and established depots in New York, Philadelphia and Chicago as well as San Francisco.

John P and Joseph returned to Birmingham in that year leaving George to run the San Francisco shop (which was re-named J P Clabrough & Brothers or Clabrough Brothers). Shortly afterwards, the business at 5 New Buildings, Price Street closed and John, Joseph and a fourth brother, William, opened as J P Claborough & Brothers in larger premises at 89 Bath Street, Birmingham. From 1872 to 1882 the firm, reportedly John P and Phillip Claybrough, was recorded at 8 Whittall Street. In 1880 in Birmingham, additional premises were taken in the name of Claborough & Brothers at 15 St Mary’s Row. In 1882 the firm’s principal address appears to have changed to 7 1/2 St Mary’s Row and the name changed to J P Clabrough & Brothers.

In 1892 John P wanted to retire and the firm of J P Clabrough & Brothers was sold to Douglas V Johnstone, a long-time employee. The business continued trading at 8 Whittall Street, but retained the 7 1/2 St Mary’s Row premises and opened a shop in London at 52 Leadenhall Street (recorded until 1895 but may have remained open until 1911). John P died in 1895, either in San Francisco or Birmingham (conflicting reports). In 1902 Douglas Johnstone moved the Birmingham factory to 3 Price Street. There were several other moves, and the business ceased trading in 1946.

From the Birmingham proof marks and name/address, the gun would appear to date between 1892 and 1896. It was proofed for black powder only, and the chamber is almost certainly 2 ½”, or at most 2 5/8”, in other words NOT for 2 ¾” shells, and certainly not modern loads. There are no surviving records of serial numbers.

Other than finding an identical one to cannibalize, there is no source for parts, and parts would have to be made. It looks like it has damascus barrels, and these would have to be examined by a competent gunsmith before determining if they could withstand mild black powder loads. A ding in a damascus barrel cannot usually be fixed, it would create a very weak spot in the welds. Of course, the condition of the bores is important, as well as wall thickness. Considering it is a relatively low-cost gun that has been used for many years (and possibly abused with inappropriate ammunition), assuming it has not been messed with in its long life is not something I would bet my fingers and eyes on. Others with local experience in restorations can probably comment on the cost of getting this gun in shooting condition, but I expect it would not be cheap. It looks like parts were removed to make it a wall-hanger, and that might be the best role for this gun. Enjoy it for what it is, and the history it represents!

 

[gunsaholic]

I've had a few of these Clabrough guns and to me they were very good value for the money back in the day. One I had was a top end boxlock that was nothing to scoff at. Anyhow, I have a sidelock hammer gun from their first year of breech loading production that is in fine condition. I also have all the parts you require. Problem is, I don't know if I want to part with them because the parts will fit my other gun.

 

[pointandshoot]

Wow, fantastic reply, thank you for taking the time to post that pinfire! I figured it had some years under its belt but didn't realize pre 1900. Surprisingly the chambers and barrels look fantastic on the inside and agree that it probably got decommissioned for a reason (probably to save someone from throwing a modern hot load in it causing bad things to happen). Most likely I will just turn it into a display piece since I don't reload shot shells and like being able to see in 3d and count to 10 on all my fingers. It's nice to know a bit of history to go along with it.

No problem gunsholic I understand, if you change your mind hit me up...I would appreciate to have a complete gun even if I don't plan on firing it. Any chance you could send some pics and measurements of the firing pins and screws? I do have a mini lathe in my garage so I might take it on as a winter project or just make some plugs and screws so it visually looks complete without empty holes.

Thanks again guys!