Cogswell and Harrison value

cam1936

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I hate to post a thread asking for a value, but I'm interested in a SxS and have no clue what the ballpark value should be.

Cogswell & Harrison 12 Gauge box lock SxS. Stamped with proof marks, Nitro Proofed, 2 1/2" (I'm assuming 2 1/2" chambers?). Bores both look like mirrors, locks up tight. The whole receiver is engraved quite nicely. Metal and fore end are in NRA Very Good condition. Stock isn't beat up, but has several repaired chips/cracks at the tang and where receiver meets stock, butt pad is just engraved in the wood.

I would like to give this shot gun a try, but only if I can get somewhat similar money out of it if I don't like it.

Ballpark value?
 
The thing you don't know though is are both bores like mirrors because they have been honed? I would maybe want to know bore measurement. Barrel wall thickness wouldn't hurt either.
 
2 1/2 chambers , cracked stock, I would have to really want it to pay 1000.oo, but with no more info hard to say.
Is it cased?
 
2 1/2” chambers is not a negative as far as value
Many grades and models likely scroll engraved
I would look on sites like guns international
Possibly a couple other sites that sell quality pieces
Find one close to yours then subtract $’s for the negative condition affecting the one you are interested in
 
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It takes me up to an hour to evaluate an English double with all the proper tools and I have years of experience doing this. There are far too many variables that could take a gun like this from a pretty wallhanger to several thousand dollars in value. The main driving factors are Original Quality and Current Condition. Cogswell and Harrison was a good maker that made good guns in many grades of quality, this being a boxlock puts it in the lower end of the scale of a higher end maker. Their guns are generally of good quality except there have been some problems with cracked frames on older Avant Tout actions, the British proof houses no longer accept these models for reproof. Even with good photos nobody can give you more than a rough ballpark range of value.
In the condition you describe , because the actual integrity of the barrels is unknown, I would put the lower range at about $500. If the gun checked out satisfactorily the high end could be as much as $1500 except that the stock cracks at the head of the stock worries me, there is quite likely hidden damage that would be expensive to have repaired. For that reason I'm not sure even $1000 would be too much. My suggestion...
If you can get it within those dollar amounts subject to a satisfactory assessment by your qualified gunsmith it could be the gun for you. It's worth paying for an hour of your gunsmith's time, make sure that he can measure bore size and wall thickness, many don't have the instruments to do this. If the vendor won't agree to this, walk away and find something that you can trust.
 
2 1/2" chambers are very common in British doubles. Kent makes an excellent 2 1/2" load, although limited to #8 shot. RST has a larger selection, just a little tougher to get and pricier than the Kents. Point being, don't shy away from 2 1/2" chambers but be prepared to have to search/buy your ammo my the flat (or reload, if so inclined)

Bringing the gun to a gunsmith for a good going over is the best advice. As stated, there are a ton of little details to understand and look for on the older doubles. But at the right price, you may find yourself owing a very enjoyable gun.
 
As Ashcroft mentioned, regarding the cracks, what you see on the outside could very easily be worse on the inside. Either way the existing cracks are something that needs attention so right off the hop you have some dollars invested there to get that problem taken care of. Regarding my earlier mention of the bores being mirror bright. Generally various aspects of condition match throughout the whole gun unless certain areas have been looked at. In this case having those cracks in the stock but mirror like bores kind of raises a red flag. It is possible that something just happened to the stock and the bores are fine, but the idea is to know/verify that. Only way you will know that is by bore and wall thickness measurements. Do you by chance have a photo of the stock, or complete gun for that matter?
 
In 2012 I bought an Avant Tout ( means to Praise Innovation) at an auction in Ont. for $260. It was in 12 ga. 2 1/2". In great overall condition, inside & out
except the ejector spring in one barrel was broke. I replaced the spring from a Brownels Kit. I reamed the chambers to 2 3/4" and only shoot mild trap loads.
I also bought another British S x S @ that auction . Great shape , cased etc. for $2,200. When I went to sell it I had a hard time & got $1200. in the end.
I found few people want ( will pay) for those old British guns , unless top makers like H&H.
 
First quality British guns can be from Provincial makers. They don't all say Holland and Holland, or Purdey.
I will echo Ashcroft. It takes in depth evaluation to ensure the value in an old British shotgun. More have been damaged by lapping the bores, than by extensive shooting.
The market for ordinary boxlock 12 bore guns is decidedly soft. The cost of a new buttstock easily exceeds the total value of the gun.
 
The ask price is $800. I think I'll hold off, I do want one, but don't have the experience with them to do a proper assessment. The bores were surprisingly bright, like brand new gun with a fresh coat of oil bright, so like some of you said, maybe they have been honed. Thank you all.
 
An old gun ( this one is probably 70, 90, 120 years old) will not have mirror bright bores unless it was recently honed and polished. Prior to about 1934 all shotgun ammo used corrosive primers, this ammo stayed in circulation until the early 1950's and was hell on bores, causing pitting within a very short time if not thoroughly cleaned shortly after shooting even one shell. It's rare to find one of these guns with original bores, no matter how fine otherwise, without some evidence of this damage. Proper bore honing and polishing in itself is not a reason to reject a gun but I have seen too many that were lapped thick and thin in spots, bored out too much for safety, even oval shaped. Properly done by a real barrel smith it will enhance the appeal and value of the gun although it will have little effect on the shooting qualities with modern ammo with plastic wads and shotcups. I would never reject an otherwise satisfactory gun because the bores "looked too new" but I would certainly use caution.
These guns are beautifully made, even the plainest ones from obscure makers were largely hand made by true masters of their craft, hand fitted to perfection, balanced, finished to a standard that today is only available on very expensive custom guns. As mentioned, the market for these guns is very soft in Canada and a good one could be a phenomenal buy, find one that fits and you will never want to go back to a machine made gun except for dragging it through the mud in a duck blind. On this gun, look carefully through each barrel at a good light or a bright white background and move it around slowly. Look for concentricity from end to end, looking for unevenness, ripples, evidence of heavy honing in one area to remove deeper pits. If it looks like a brand new perfect barrel the work has probably been probably done on a lathe with a pilot by an experience smith and is probably a sign that all is good. This type of work is not amateur work, it would cost $250-$300 for both barrels if done by an experienced barrel smith and is a good sign that the gun overall was worth spending the money on. Still, the head of the stock is the weakest area and this would need to be taken care of asap and should be budgeted for.
12 gauge 2 1/2" ammo is inconvenient to source but it's out there mostly as hunting ammo in shot sizes 6 and 7. Cost is about the same as higher quality 28 gauge and 410 ammo and lots of that gets burned up each year. Cost is not a factor when the gun is only used for hunting and maybe 2-3 range trips per year.
 
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