Cold Weather - Mag Primers Needed?

[jeffbird]

First, let me say good morning and hello as this is my first visit to your forum. It looks like a good group.

I'll be visiting in mid-November to hunt deer in Saskatchewan. I am bringing 308 and 7WSM.

Here in Texas I use regular large rifle primers, which work fine down to around freezing.

With the colder weather there, would you recommend using mag primers instead? I use Varget in the 308 and MagPro in the 7WSM.

I tried the search function, but "primer" is too common and received a flood of results.

Thanks, and greatly looking forward to visiting.

Jeff
Austin, Texas

 

[t-star]

i use nothing but, but i also burn ww748- if it's one of those "hunt" of a lifetime things, i would say yes, but DEVLOP YOUR LOADS with the magnum primer in place as the pressure curve is somewhat different- remember we use a CELSIUS scale up here , so our zero is your plus 32- or your zero is around our -18 or so and that CAN and does affect cartridge performance-PRACTISE with the ammo you're going to shoot with ,and go for it= and saskatchewan gets downright nasty cold in november- esp if there's a wind blowin

 

[Dogleg]

As a general rule of thumb I use magnum primers in the magnums, and with all ball powders. With this method your .308 is good to go, I'd use magnums in the wissum.

Most guided whitetail hunting in Sask is over bait. The things that can bugger you up are not being able to take the cold, and your gun going "click". Its a long ways to come to hear a click, and honestly about the only thing that matters in short range hunting is function. Degrease your bolt too and either run it dry or a tiny bit of cold weather oil.
Weather conditions right now are down to freezeing at night, and 10-15 C for a high during the day. That's bound to change by the time you get here, but stranger things have happened.

 

[H4831]

As a general rule of thumb I use magnum primers in the magnums, and with all ball powders. With this method your .308 is good to go, I'd use magnums in the wissum.

Most guided whitetail hunting in Sask is over bait. The things that can bugger you up are not being able to take the cold, and your gun going "click". Its a long ways to come to hear a click, and honestly about the only thing that matters in short range hunting is function. Degrease your bolt too and either run it dry or a tiny bit of cold weather oil.
Weather conditions right now are down to freezeing at night, and 10-15 C for a high during the day. That's bound to change by the time you get here, but stranger things have happened.

I grew up in that bush country you referred to in another post as being a couple hours north of you. I grew up about 200 road miles north east of you. In the geat depression years there were lots of moose and elk and the bush homesteaders shot them year 'round, in order to survive. In the fall they cleaned their rifle actions, in particular the firing pin assembley, in kerosene, leaving no oil, whatsoever, in the rifle. Some homesteaders and all trappers, never brought their rifles inside, all winter.
The records will show that time period had very cold winters. The men shot game in weather as cold as 40 degrees below zero. Of course, they all used factory ammunition, CIL Dominion brand and probably half of the rifles were Model 94 Winchesters in 30-30 calibre. The rifles always shot and the moose and elk died.
We know the ammunition did not have magnum primers because the so-called magnum variety were not made until some thirty years later.
My point is to go ahead and use your magnum primers if it makes you feel better, but I do not think they are neccessary. I have never used magnum primers. I have shot cartridges stuffed full of H4831 in weather as cold as 30 degrees below zero. I have also shot lots of ball powder and I have never had a primer failure, or any kind of abnormal firing of the cartridge.

 

[bearhunter]

Bruce speaks true. Not really needed. Varget, isn't all that temperature sensitive and neither is MagPro.
I'm sure you get some pretty foul weather in Texas as well. Saskatchewan, will give you Texas at its worst. On the other hand, it may just be calm, clear and cold. Then again, it may snow a foot with a 50 mph cross wind.

The kit you mention, will be fine. Your big problem, will be preparing for the weather conditions. Insulated boots with decent socks, waterproof as well, wind proof outer and warm layers to keep you comfortable on a stand or stalking, down to -30F in a wind are recommended to keep you comfortable under any condition you encounter. Wear a head cover of some sort. A good balaclava, may also be a good idea, especially as you won't be acclimatised.

You must be going with a guide. It's the law. I haven't met a guide that loads his/her own ammunition yet. They mostly use the cheapest stuff they can find on sale, at the local hardware store or Walmart. You just need to be able to shoot your rifles well. They are both good choices, for anything from deer and bears to moose and elk.

 

[coyote]

Jeff I live in New-Brunswick and it gets cold here also I hunt with a 308 and also use varget regular primers work great in sub zero .
When I use ball powders it is strictly mag primers.

 

[Rotaxpower]

Jeff, welcom to the forums I hope you enjoy your trip to our fine province! Were are you going hunting?

 

[jeffbird]

Thank you for all of the help guys.

I am going with Max Bru near Turtle Lake, Saskatchewan.

We hunt in below freezing down here, just not nearly as far below freezing as you. Last year, I was out in -14C, but that is still a warm compared to what you are describing.

I'll stay with regular primers in the 308 and change to mag primers in the 7wsm. I like to use handloads as I know the rifle will like them and I can shoot farther with them more comfortably than I can with most factory ammo.

Especially with the 308, if the airlines loses the ammo, I can run factory ammo easily enough. The 308 rifle is not too picky about it and neither is the 7wsm.

The potential cold definitely has my attention. I bought some slightly used waterproof pac boots, wool pants that are about like a quilt and some insulated waterproof coveralls about the thickness of a sleeping bag. With long underwear, some sweaters, balaclava, does this sound like an ok set-up or do I need more?

Kind of off topic from the primers, how do you carry water to keep it from freezing while in the stand? Put it in a Thermos?

I've hunted deer a lot down here, but I am hoping to see one of these mythical 300 pounders.

I really appreciate all of the feedback guys. It is much appreciated.

 

[Buck45]

In northern Ontario I put warm water in the thermos. It cooled down plenty by days end. More often hot chocolate was in the other one. Tim Horton's stuff in a can mixes well with boiling water. We were in the James Bay area.

The wet was the main problem. The cold damp that chills to the bone. We all carried some GORP in zip locks in our day bag. Basic peanuts no salt, dried cranberries and raisins and some almonds. Cashews are also great. Takes the edge off while seated for long hours.

 

[H4831]

You are making the mistake made by so many people, on their first experiences in a cold country. The clothes you describe are overkill. Maybe, if you sit for hours in a stand, it would be OK. But if you have to walk more than fifty feet, leave off that outer stuff until you get to the stand. You mentioned having long underwear. Long, one piece, heavy wool underwear is the best single garmet you can have, to keep you warm. Also, very important is a substantial, warm hat, of some type, along with two piece mitts, the inner ones being wool. Note I said mitts, not gloves.
In deer hunting season there is a good chance it could be above freezing in the daytime. I suppose you should be prepared for the really cold, it could happen, but more likely the temperature will be quite moderate. Take an ordinary wool jacket, for use in the temperature you will most likely encounter.
If you are working, sweating, cold water may be nice. But in a stand I wouldn't bother with water. Start out with a thermos of hot coffee, instead.
I spent fifteen years of my life in the Saskatchewan bush, easterly and further north than you will be going, so I know something about it. The records show that the temperatures were colder then, also, at that long ago time.

 

[jeffbird]

Will do H4831. Sounds like what I wear down here would work for walking or "warmer" days.
Buck45, coffee is definitely on the must have list for me.
Thank you to everyone for the advice.

 

[Dogleg]

but I am hoping to see one of these mythical 300 pounders

Not so mythical, that's just a nice older mature buck. They get bigger but those are pretty scarce. The heaviest I ever weighed was 198 pounds dressed, skinned and hanging at the butcher. Dressed weights of 140 -150 pounds aren't unusual.

 

[bearhunter]

Bruce is correct again (H4831). That's why I suggested layered clothing. You can keep heavier overwear in your pack if needed. Keep your water bottle inside your coat if the weather is below freezing.

 

[Dogleg]

While on the subject of clothing, remember that Sask requires red, orange, yellow or white from the waist up, plus a hat in any of those colours except white. Used to be head to foot until a year or so ago. It takes most of the zip out of discussing camo patterns after that.
If sitting stands as you probably will be, chemical handwarmers shoved into the toes of your boots make a world of difference. You can have 100 below boots that are useless for walking in, and your feet can still get cold if you sit on your butt all day.
Not that it matters much to pop a jumper, but what bullets are you useing in the two calibers?

 

[jeffbird]

Yes, my understanding is that we are hunting from stands only.

I have a white outer shell on order and an orange balaclava. If I pull the hood of the jacket over the balaclava, do I need another orange or red cover outside of the hood?

176 gr. Cauterucio in the 7WSM, and a 175 SMK in the 308.

I have been working with the 168 Barnes TSX for the 308, so I might use it if I can tighten it up a bit more. So far the TSX is only holding 1 MOA to 300 and I would prefer to shrink that some, but I have not tinkered with the seating depth any yet.

The tear open warmers were first thing on my shopping list.

 

[Dogleg]

Yes, my understanding is that we are hunting from stands only.

I have a white outer shell on order and an orange balaclava. If I pull the hood of the jacket over the balaclava, do I need another orange or red cover outside of the hood?

176 gr. Cauterucio in the 7WSM, and a 175 SMK in the 308.

I have been working with the 168 Barnes TSX for the 308, so I might use it if I can tighten it up a bit more. So far the TSX is only holding 1 MOA to 300 and I would prefer to shrink that some, but I have not tinkered with the seating depth any yet.

The tear open warmers were first thing on my shopping list.

Can you turn the balaclava into a toque? Most of the time it just isn't that cold. I would just save the balaclava for if you need it, and wear a regular hat.

Anticipateing some longrange hunting? I'd take at least a few of the TSXs at 1 MOA. Baited stands will more likely give you a 50 yard shot than a 500. I took a 568 yard red stag with those 168 TSXs in Argentina last April with a Mark V rebarrelled to .300 Win.
Target bullets make me nervous for general purpose use. Having said that, I've thrown my share of 300 grain SMKs around too.

 

[jeffbird]

No sir, not expecting long range or even mid-range. Those are what I've used for the last several years for practice and an occasional match. So I just started using them for hunting several years ago with good results. Having said that, I would like to go lead-free at least for the close up hunting and so am still working on the TSX loads and hope to improve it still.

Y'all are starting to make me feel better about the weather.

 

[Dogleg]

It was only -4 C this morning, so practically balmy. No snow, most of the leaves are still on the trees. That can turn real ugly, real fast though. I've sat whitetail stands at 40 below, that just sucks the fun right out of things.You have to be prepared for the worst. If you're hunting bait, the colder and more snow the better, rut helps too. When will you be up here?

 

[jeffbird]

I've sat whitetail stands at 40 below, that just sucks the fun right out of things.

You have to be prepared for the worst.

All of you have me very convinced of this point.

It was only -4 C this morning, so practically balmy.

Ok, adding a swimsuit and suntan lotion to the packing list.

We will bump 30C here this afternoon, which is feeling very cool and pleasant compared to just a few weeks ago. Hmmm.... looks like this definitely will be an experience to remember.

Is there a public range around Saskatoon to take the loads for a test drive before heading off to the hinterlands? The guide will have us test drive for him, but I would like to be dialed in and make sure everything is running before showing up, if reasonably possible.

I will be there the week of November 8.

When does the rut kick into gear?

 

[Dogleg]

Ruts usually rockin' pretty good by the 15th,. Your timing seems nearly perfect.
People are walking around without jackets right now, at a sunny +8 C.