Commercial reloader question

freekshow001

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Victoria, BC
I am looking for some insight or information on becoming a commercial reloader as a business.

I am currently laid off from work right now and was thinking of turning my passion and hobby into a business. I am looking for any kind of info from people who may have already tried to go down this road. I know i will need insurance and some form of licensing from the government or rcmp. I know it is going to be a bumpy road to travel or else everyone would be doing it, but i am up to the task and have lots of time on my hands.
 
First off, the best way to ruin your favorite passion and hobby is to try to make money off of it. Accept that fact right off the bat.

Once you get into it as a business it's about dollars and cents. Fun, enjoyment, blah blah goes out the window once you start flushing your rent or retirement

money down the drain.


As with any business you build it on paper first with a solid business plan. Only once that's done do you even begin to consider dropping a dime on it.

The permits are fairly straight forward. The RCMP stuff should be available online, you local municipalities rules and regs for home business also.


It was quite some time ago, but, when last I looked at it I planned for 6 months of start up - all the research, permitting, sourcing vendors and suppliers, packaging, ect. At the time I had 3 local clubs that would take pretty much every round I could produce in bulk, paid cash on delivery. Today only one of those clubs is still in business and I'm doubtful they could move more than 4 cases of 9 a month.

See what kind of training/programs EI has available to you for small business management and development. Get ready for alot of homework and running around. And be really serious with your math and calculations. Foolish optimism has killed more businesses before they started than most anything else. gl hope it works out.
 
First off, the best way to ruin your favorite passion and hobby is to try to make money off of it. Accept that fact right off the bat.

Once you get into it as a business it's about dollars and cents. Fun, enjoyment, blah blah goes out the window once you start flushing your rent or retirement

money down the drain.
This.
 
while I took my passion and turned it into a full time job for myself and a few others, it can be hard from day today, but I will love what I do.
Canada has more Lic and requierments for everything then you could ever think off.
butall you have to do it comply and you will have no issue.
with ammo, you biggist issue is going to be finding brass, of which most will have to be imported from the USA.
get 4-5 exclusive agreements with people In the US, before you start worrying about permits ect.
 
I spent some serious time looking into this, right down to finding real estate, to the permits, and getting everything going. In the end, it all came down to lack of funds. Now I was able to go see ACOA (Atlantic Canada opportunities agency) and they would fund out on this business, and they supplied a huge list of every single manufacturer of all components pretty much worldwide. They have a huge database and can search anything you are looking for.

Basically here is what they would lend on
you need to show job creation or job maintaining (easy)
they only lend after you personally paid for everything to get going (equipment, building upgrades, supplies, they can lend on all this)
confirmation of purchase orders (hard to get without banging independently on dealers and retailers doors, I asked on this form if I could send an email to all the dealers, however was told this is spamming and I cannot use CGN to solicit dealers) also think of how hard it is to call up a dealer say, yes doing market research, will you sign a purchase order for 100,000 rounds of unproven, unsold reloads so I can go get my financing? (of course not so obvious, but you get the picture)

Since I am in the finance industry, the only real way for me to come up with the money would be through private funds. Very expensive money (about 25% interest, and would put a blanket mortgage on almost everything I own!) and still would need to pay the interest until product started shipping (would be at least 8-10 months after startup, once the permits are acquired, equipment bought, hiring and training complete, and then testing, more testing and testing again to ensure that a superior product gets to the consumer, otherwise you just hung yourself!)

So really all you need is upfront funds, or somewhere to get some bridge financing. I priced it out to $260,000, but since I know cash flow and cost overruns kills startups (no matter how much you calculated, it will ALWAYS be more) would need an initial investment of $300,000. And this is on the low side and including doing pretty much all the leg work myself!

For the components, it is hard to secure a good and steady supply of brass as S&J stated, however outsourcing new casings is most likely the ideal process (for now), again $$$. I did look at government surplus auctions for once fired brass. It comes up often, and a lot of standard casings, but I have still not heard back on the official ruling if this can be used as reloads, I am highly doubting it can be used and from what I've heard it can't, but still want an official letter stating that.

So if you have the funds, it can be done no doubt about that! anyone want to lend $300,000!
 
+1 to all of the above.

It should be noted that for $300k Clifford probably isn't talking about a semi-auto Dillon 1050 but more like a full Candex set up with Brass sorting, Loader, and packaging machines.

Mil-surp brass is available but it's very limited in what you get; basically tons of 5.56 and 9, and a tiny bit of 7.62 and other stuff. You still need to aggressively hunt every other major caliber. ( If you check the fine print it say's No Export without authorization. Usually nothing about mandatory de-mil so technically your gtg for the domestic market ).

The alternate is to become a high end uber specialist. Don't do bulk, stick to high end hunting or target calibers only and charge a premium. That's the technique
Corbin is based on with their bullet making equipment and it seems to work fairly well for them.
 
There is a good thread on how to screw up a reloading business over on Calguns.

ht tp://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=314780

Add import/export hassles and fees to the American experience.
 
Don't be a downer. :)
I know from my personal experience that turning personal passion into a career is NOT necessarily a bad thing. AFTER ALL, you got paid to do what you love.
the key is that you truly love it which will make you very good at it. In my case, my current job was AND still IS my hobby. After 20 years, I am still in love with it and doing it everyday at work and at home!

Then I agree with the rest you said, a careful planning is key to success to any business. Especially a cruel reality is that over 80% small business fails even though most of the time we only see the successful ones. So, be mindful and do tons of homework. If what you love gives you hardship, you might hate it very badly which is not what you want.


First off, the best way to ruin your favorite passion and hobby is to try to make money off of it. Accept that fact right off the bat.
 
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+1 to all of the above.

It should be noted that for $300k Clifford probably isn't talking about a semi-auto Dillon 1050 but more like a full Candex set up with Brass sorting, Loader, and packaging machines.

Mil-surp brass is available but it's very limited in what you get; basically tons of 5.56 and 9, and a tiny bit of 7.62 and other stuff. You still need to aggressively hunt every other major caliber. ( If you check the fine print it say's No Export without authorization. Usually nothing about mandatory de-mil so technically your gtg for the domestic market ).

The alternate is to become a high end uber specialist. Don't do bulk, stick to high end hunting or target calibers only and charge a premium. That's the technique
Corbin is based on with their bullet making equipment and it seems to work fairly well for them.

LOL I did actually consider Dillon's and did have that as part of my feasibility assessment, the pro's were cheap, but quality product, However, the labor involved (even at $12.50/ hour) vs amount produced per hour, would quickly take off from the bottom line. It just didn't make sense. I'm all for starting small and working up, but for something where you do want to make some money at. You are correct I liked the Camdex and called them.

Its funny that you brought up high end vs bulk. I spent time looking at this, and decided to go the way of bulk in phase 1, then in phase 3 add a precision premium. Mainly I felt (and this is my opinion, so I can be wrong here) is most people want to put as much lead down range as fast as possible! Look at the bulk deals around, tula and norinco bring out these deals on 7.62x51 and they seem to sell like hotcakes. Now if you could bridge the gap of bulk and quality, that I feel would be a good niche. Later I would want to add the premium precision line, but this now has a few drawbacks as well. First you would be marketed as a cheaper, bulk manufacturer in turn trying to be lead sniper. Its like Dodge making a car to compete to a Rolls Royce Phantom corniche at the same price point (and the Viper is not comparable to a rolls!). I'd take the Rolls! So now its a big marketing campaign, and marketing is a HUGE necessity, but with a hefty price tag! Best way for marketing, IMO, would be to get at a price point below all competition, yet have a margin for all dealers to be double or better than any other brand. Let the dealers push the customers to the product! By doing that though, lowers my line, but in the end, consumers get the product over another brand. But you still need to get it to the dealers hands! Maybe later if it gets profitable enough, and good enough brand power, could be sold out to a large company for the big bucks (yep I'd sell out, thats where the money lies!)

Also for the precision rounds, I feel that it is a much smaller market. Yes most people buy the expensive rounds for hunting big game, but for the most part, I'd say the ones who shoot a lot competitively would continue to roll their own, unless you provided a perfect quality product every time at considerably less than what they are now, but I'd think the margins and time would not warrant much of the market. My opinion

There is a market out there, and with ammunition it would be great for the whole community, cheaper costs to feed would mean a ripple effect in the industry. I know I have passed on certain firearms because I would not be able to use it as much as I would like to.
 
It's always a good thing to work at what you like doing. You do have to operate like a business though. Working for yourself isn't for everybody.
Start with business running classes.
It's not so much the licencing(.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/fab-eaf-eng.htm) that is the issue as it is the liability insurance and buying commercial reloading machines. Plus having a place to put 'em and having enough money to live on while you build the business. You will not get money from any bank. And 300 grand is very likely not enough.
You'll also need a place to put a powder magazine. Rules for that are from all levels of government. Start by looking for any local by-laws that may prohibit a powder magazine. If you live in any urban area, there will be one that most likely prohibits it. So you'll need a place in the far boonies.
 
It's always a good thing to work at what you like doing. You do have to operate like a business though. Working for yourself isn't for everybody.
Start with business running classes.
It's not so much the licencing(.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/fab-eaf-eng.htm) that is the issue as it is the liability insurance and buying commercial reloading machines. Plus having a place to put 'em and having enough money to live on while you build the business. You will not get money from any bank. And 300 grand is very likely not enough.
You'll also need a place to put a powder magazine. Rules for that are from all levels of government. Start by looking for any local by-laws that may prohibit a powder magazine. If you live in any urban area, there will be one that most likely prohibits it. So you'll need a place in the far boonies.

All comes down to location location location! For my situation, $300,000 is very much doable (ok that is not including the building, however, those with 20% down can be financed at a bank as it is real estate) here are some cheap locations

http://www.icx.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=15548194&PidKey=1201352188
Rural environment, completely fenced in, a railway siding was once there, but removed (and I never researched shipping by railway anyways) and a truck scale. I visited, it is priced 2 ways. First since it was agriculture, there has been no property tax paid for the last 10 years. If it is sold for no agriculture usage, the last 10 years the seller needs to pay back taxes. He would want 300,000 for agriculture use and 375 non agri.

http://www.icx.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=15915532&PidKey=-1851631966
Has a residential component that would need to be offices. I know this property, 15 years ago I rented this house before purchasing my own property. 3 separate commercial buildings (one not visible behind orange building, It is steel but with gravel floor, good for empty case storage only) 190,000 would take this property.

http://www.icx.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=15059234&PidKey=-1771877824
OK so this one is in town, but in an industrial park, was used for mixing fertilizer. Train accessible. Unfortunately, owned but a huge corporation (mcCain foods) so price would not be that negotiable! Prob the full million to buy (still a deal as you cannot build this for that! well over 3 million plus land)
 
The hardest part of the equation in my opinion will be insurance. It is available but incredibly expensive.
Lloyds were the only outfit that would entertain covering a firearms manufacturer, the premiums are STEEP!

Something you need to look into.
 
The hardest part of the equation in my opinion will be insurance. It is available but incredibly expensive.
Lloyds were the only outfit that would entertain covering a firearms manufacturer, the premiums are STEEP!

Something you need to look into.

Absolutely the liability insurance was astronomical. My wife was working for an insurance broker at the time, and she had some time to call around. Most she had access to would not provide any coverage (oh and also it is not like car or home insurance where you pay by the month, all upfront!). A few would, but I did not have any firm quotes, as most needed to see an environmental impact assessment as well. Even if a property was properly sourced, you are looking at $3,500 for ACI commercial appraisal, $4,000 for an environmental assessment (assuming only need a phase 1, but most likely will need a phase 2 as well) and closing costs. these costs would be part of the upfront costs, that even if you didn't proceed, you have about $15,000 + time invested for something that may never come to pass!
 
Absolutely the liability insurance was astronomical. My wife was working for an insurance broker at the time, and she had some time to call around. Most she had access to would not provide any coverage (oh and also it is not like car or home insurance where you pay by the month, all upfront!). A few would, but I did not have any firm quotes, as most needed to see an environmental impact assessment as well. Even if a property was properly sourced, you are looking at $3,500 for ACI commercial appraisal, $4,000 for an environmental assessment (assuming only need a phase 1, but most likely will need a phase 2 as well) and closing costs. these costs would be part of the upfront costs, that even if you didn't proceed, you have about $15,000 + time invested for something that may never come to pass!

You can finance insurance, but it is not easy. Our insurance premiums just for general liability run barely under $10000.00 per month. This probably explains why so very many in this industry opt to run naked and place all their assets out of reach of lawsuits. It keeps costs down significantly.
 
Thanks everyone for all the insight, definitely gives me alot of food for thought. I was actually expecting alot of people to post negative comments about how i wouldn't succeed, but you gentleman proved me wrong.

I know at a starting point i wont make enough to support myself but something that i could work at and build up and than in a few years be something i can live off of. I was thinking of going the bulk way as i figured it would move quicker than starting with 50bmg and 338 lapua mag or higher up cartridges, plus if people shoot those rounds than they are probably already setup to load their rounds themselves. I do have ideas for several wildcat rounds that i want to produce and than market it towards the police and military.

I know that turning my hobby into a business will kill some of the passion for me but im at that point where i would rather try and do what i have a passion for as a living than continue to be unhappy working for someone else.
 
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