Competitive setup for ipsc mini rifle?

diegocn

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Our local club is planning to host some IPSC mini rifle match this year. I checked the rule book, and it allows for up to 30 round magazine. This got me into thinking:

What would be a competitive setup for this game.

I have mostly 10/22 and variants, which normally uses ruger 10/22 mags that's pinned to 10 rounds. I've used the TUF-22 25 round magazines made by HC3R and was not impressed by them (bulky to insert and not feeding well especially under speed). I'm also aware SBI makes a 597 magazine adapter for 10/22, but have no experience with it. From the look of the 597 magazines, they would have the same issue with HC3R 10/22 mags, being too curvy thus unwieldy to use. But I'm still curious in people's experience with them (i.e. do they work under a fast mag dump? The spring couldn't keep up on the HC3R magazines).

Expanding the scope a bit, I've used Savage A22 with the butler creek 25 round magazines. From my experience they don't run reliably. Also I feel like the plastic magazine release tab built into the magazine is going to break down the road.

Derya TM22 is another option that has 25 round magazine. People seems to like the rifle. Do they run well with the 25 rounders?

There's also a host of GSG products (GSG-15/16, mp40, stg44) that has 20-ish rounds magazines. No idea how they run but from my experience with the GSG .22 1911, their products are cheaply made.

There's also the option of creating a magazine adapter, similar to what SBI did for 10/22. What would be a good 30 round magazine to design the adapter from? Ideally something boxy similar to an AR (i.e. CMMG .22 mag) or AICS (i.e. vudoo) magazine would be the best. What options do we have in Canada for these magazines?
 
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I think you have it pretty well covered there, look up what everyone is shooting at the Outlaw rimfire steel matches.. short light weight 10-22 platforms, tuf-22, dlask, tacsol, greybirch volquartsen etc
 
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.I'm also aware SBI makes a 597 magazine adapter for 10/22, but have no experience with it. From the look of the 597 magazines, they would have the same issue with HC3R 10/22 mags, being too curvy thus unwieldy to use. But I'm still curious in people's experience with them (i.e. do they work under a fast mag dump? The spring couldn't keep up on the HC3R magazines).

I bought a Gen I of a 597 adapter in 2019 and all I can say is that it has been quite unreliable. It was made of some sort of graphite composite or something like that. Very soft material. A lot of FTFs and others. It works somehow with a translucent 597 mag but it doesn't not work at all with an opaque 597 mag which was, ironically, recommended by SBI. The Gen I adapter cost only $29.99 so it's not a big deal. Now, SBI manufactures Gen II adapter made of aluminum alloy which cost $89. So I don't know if it's more reliable or not. But I wouldn't buy it at that price, anyway.
 
Are they available in Canada? Tandemkross is US. Personally, I'm not so keen on connected together regular 10/22 magazines. A bit cumbersome.

No experience with the DoubleKross, but Tandemkross is available in Canada. I know the Calgary Shooting Centre is a distributor. I’ve also ordered directly from Tandemkross in the past with no issues. They make high quality stuff.
 
I bought a Gen I of a 597 adapter in 2019 and all I can say is that it has been quite unreliable. It was made of some sort of graphite composite or something like that. Very soft material. A lot of FTFs and others. It works somehow with a translucent 597 mag but it doesn't not work at all with an opaque 597 mag which was, ironically, recommended by SBI. The Gen I adapter cost only $29.99 so it's not a big deal. Now, SBI manufactures Gen II adapter made of aluminum alloy which cost $89. So I don't know if it's more reliable or not. But I wouldn't buy it at that price, anyway.

I bought the Gen2 Rem597 adapter for my 10/22 and have had mixed results with it. The adapter itself appears to function, but the 10/22 has issues with the magazines, getting many FTF (nose down I find). I have tried Remington branded magazines and ProMag branded magazines and they both have issues.

I have switched over to the 10 round butler creek magazines - the ones that clip together into a 3-magazine "star". Very reliable for me.

YMMV
 
Quote Originally Posted by 05RAV View Post
I bought a Gen I of a 597 adapter in 2019 and all I can say is that it has been quite unreliable. It was made of some sort of graphite composite or something like that. Very soft material. A lot of FTFs and others. It works somehow with a translucent 597 mag but it doesn't not work at all with an opaque 597 mag which was, ironically, recommended by SBI. The Gen I adapter cost only $29.99 so it's not a big deal. Now, SBI manufactures Gen II adapter made of aluminum alloy which cost $89. So I don't know if it's more reliable or not. But I wouldn't buy it at that price, anyway.

I bought the Gen2 Rem597 adapter for my 10/22 and have had mixed results with it. The adapter itself appears to function, but the 10/22 has issues with the magazines, getting many FTF (nose down I find). I have tried Remington branded magazines and ProMag branded magazines and they both have issues.
I have switched over to the 10 round butler creek magazines - the ones that clip together into a 3-magazine "star". Very reliable for me.
YMMV

With this post you reassured me that I made a right decision not buying the Gen 2 adapter. Looks like that SBI product is not really well executed.
I stick to the original 10/22 rotary mags. I've seen the ones that clip into a "single" mag but it seems too bulky to me.
 
Are we thinking that the 10/22 is effectively limited to 10s for race conditions? As in the reliability of the >10 options is less than the achieved benefit (vs an earlier mag change for the 10s / or coupled 10s). Thx.
 
Are we thinking that the 10/22 is effectively limited to 10s for race conditions? As in the reliability of the >10 options is less than the achieved benefit (vs an earlier mag change for the 10s / or coupled 10s). Thx.

I'm not sure what you mean by "limited to 10s for race conditions". All magazines with capacity more than 10 rds that fit a 10/22 rifle are "prohibited" by the RCMP because they also fit a Ruger Charger pistol which uses the same magazines. Pistols in Canada are limited to 10 rounds. So, any high capacity 10/22 magazine is prohibited because it could, potentially, be a pistol magazine. For this reason, vendors started inventing various ways to overcome that problem by using other types of high capacity magazines with adapters for a 10/22 rifle or coupling/linking together a few 10-rds Ruger magazines.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "limited to 10s for race conditions". All magazines with capacity more than 10 rds that fit a 10/22 rifle are "prohibited" by the RCMP because they also fit a Ruger Charger pistol which uses the same magazines. Pistols in Canada are limited to 10 rounds. So, any high capacity 10/22 magazine is prohibited because it could, potentially, be a pistol magazine. For this reason, vendors started inventing various ways to overcome that problem by using other types of high capacity magazines with adapters for a 10/22 rifle or coupling/linking together a few 10-rds Ruger magazines.

Yeah, I know - thanks for explaining it to anyone who doesn't. Let me reword my question:

Option #1: Run 10/22 stock. Reliable, but limited to 10s.
Option #2: Run 10/22 with "various ways to overcome that problem". Less reliable, but less mag changes because >10.
Option #3: Run 10/22 stock, using mag couplers. Mostly reliable, still limited to 10s, but theoretically faster mag swaps.

Specifically are we thinking Option #2 is the weakest of the 3 (in the context of a race)? Or are we thinking the downsides of #2 are less than the upsides? Thx.
 
Yeah, I know - thanks for explaining it to anyone who doesn't. Let me reword my question:

Option #1: Run 10/22 stock. Reliable, but limited to 10s.
Option #2: Run 10/22 with "various ways to overcome that problem". Less reliable, but less mag changes because >10.
Option #3: Run 10/22 stock, using mag couplers. Mostly reliable, still limited to 10s, but theoretically faster mag swaps.
Specifically are we thinking Option #2 is the weakest of the 3 (in the context of a race)? Or are we thinking the downsides of #2 are less than the upsides? Thx.

O.K. Now, you are talking. IMHO Option #2 is the weakest of the 3. From my personal experience those "adapters" nearly always fail at least couple of times for every 20-25 rds "other" mag. Then you are out of the race. Option #1 is not so bad because after some training the changes of the pre-loaded 10-rds mags can be made relatively fast. Under the circumstances, Option #3 may/may not be a bit faster than Option #1 because still only one 10-rds mag at a time is inserted into the rifle and the first cartridge must be still manually loaded. But that's me. May be someone else will have a different perspective.
 
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Thank you for sharing your experience. With 10s, it looks like 1 or 2 mag changes per typical course? I agree, reliability beats capacity in a race imo - plus always ready for the next reload is probably a good habit for when things hang up. Couplers may become cumbersome if prone or on barricades, so strategy specific to the course. I think there are lots of options (even beyond 10/22) for mini rifles once the 10 round capacity is dismissed as a showstopper. This event will get very fast imo, exciting!
 
Hey Joe :) - Try googling " ruger 10/22 magazine connector canada " - Lots of vendors in Canada, some are sponsors. Doewn't cost much either.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience. With 10s, it looks like 1 or 2 mag changes per typical course? I agree, reliability beats capacity in a race imo - plus always ready for the next reload is probably a good habit for when things hang up. Couplers may become cumbersome if prone or on barricades, so strategy specific to the course. I think there are lots of options (even beyond 10/22) for mini rifles once the 10 round capacity is dismissed as a showstopper. This event will get very fast imo, exciting!

Honestly speaking, a 10/22 may not be suitable for IPSC shooting due to a high capacity magazine problem. I think that a much better choice could be the Armscor-Derya TM22 Feather: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2438899-Armscor-Derya-TM22-Feather/page2. Magazines 10, 15 and 25 rds are available nearly everywhere. It is now being sold at IRUNGUNS (Canadian site). The price is very good even taking into account the present exchange rate. Personally, I love this rifle. Especially the trigger pull weight of about 2lbs is quite outstanding.
 
Honestly speaking, a 10/22 may not be suitable for IPSC shooting due to a high capacity magazine problem. I think that a much better choice could be the Armscor-Derya TM22 Feather: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2438899-Armscor-Derya-TM22-Feather/page2. Magazines 10, 15 and 25 rds are available nearly everywhere. It is now being sold at IRUNGUNS (Canadian site). The price is very good even taking into account the present exchange rate. Personally, I love this rifle. Especially the trigger pull weight of about 2lbs is quite outstanding.

With the group of people I shoot with, the TM22 appears to be very ammo picky. Many FTF and FTE, especially with the larger magazines. I'm sure once you find a brand of ammo the gun likes it'll be good, but my buddy's experience has been mixed. Most of us just use the 10/22 with 10-round Butler Creek magazines.
 
Quote Originally Posted by 05RAV View Post
Honestly speaking, a 10/22 may not be suitable for IPSC shooting due to a high capacity magazine problem. I think that a much better choice could be the Armscor-Derya TM22 Feather: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-Feather/page2. Magazines 10, 15 and 25 rds are available nearly everywhere. It is now being sold at IRUNGUNS (Canadian site). The price is very good even taking into account the present exchange rate. Personally, I love this rifle. Especially the trigger pull weight of about 2lbs is quite outstanding.

With the group of people I shoot with, the TM22 appears to be very ammo picky. Many FTF and FTE, especially with the larger magazines. I'm sure once you find a brand of ammo the gun likes it'll be good, but my buddy's experience has been mixed. Most of us just use the 10/22 with 10-round Butler Creek magazines.

I'm NOT talking about the Derya TM22. I'm talking about the Armscor-Derya TM22 Feather. The latter has some design differences with respect to the original Derya TM22. See this: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2438899-Armscor-Derya-TM22-Feather. The only ammo I had a bit of a problem with in the Feather, was standard velocity TAC-22 and CCI Standard Velocity. Apparently, it didn't like low velocity ammo. It shot HV ammo like a champ. But I presume that for a dynamic shooting people use HV ammo, right?
 
I'm NOT talking about the Derya TM22. I'm talking about the Armscor-Derya TM22 Feather. The latter has some design differences with respect to the original Derya TM22. See this: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2438899-Armscor-Derya-TM22-Feather. The only ammo I had a bit of a problem with in the Feather, was standard velocity TAC-22 and CCI Standard Velocity. Apparently, it didn't like low velocity ammo. It shot HV ammo like a champ. But I presume that for a dynamic shooting people use HV ammo, right?

My apologies mixing up the two firearms. Will try to read more carefully.

Cheers!
 
My apologies mixing up the two firearms. Will try to read more carefully.
Cheers!

No problem. To the best of my knowledge, at the present moment, the Armscor-Derya-TM22 Feather rifles are unavailable in Canada from any Canadian vendor so, not too many people have a knowledge about these rifles. Only IRUNGUNS imports them from the Rock Island Armory (RIA/Armscor) to their Canadian site. That's from where they can be purchased. At the moment their price is about USD30 higher than I paid for mine. Still at USD 234.99 it's a great deal. IMO the Feather is much smarter engineered than a "regular" Derya TM22. Quite an improvement. I love mine.
 
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