Confusing problem

Expander is .283, isn't this what it should be?

Jeez, if this is a known problem, why the heck doesn't RCBS make the die and shell holder properly to begin with? So I would remove 5 thou off the top of the shell holder, is this correct?

I still don't see how running the case 5 thou deeper into the die is going to bring the shoulder .005 in, maybe .001 but not .005.
 
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ryanb said:
Expander is .283, isn't this what it should be?

Jeez, if this is a known problem, why the heck doesn't RCBS make the die and shell holder properly to begin with? So I would remove 5 thou off the top of the shell holder, is this correct?

I still don't see how running the case 5 thou deeper into the die is going to bring the shoulder .005 in, maybe .001 but not .005.

(I think I said this before)..... It is a known problem because one company does not make the chamber in the mass produced rifle and a corressponding die. Both manufacturers have minimum and maximum specifications and when a minimum chamber and a maximum die end up together with an unexperienced reloader a problem occurs.

Personally I would rather remove a bit off the bottom of the die but it does not matter a fat rats ass which you do. The case needs to go into the sizing die a bit more...

...and it is not the shoulder diameter that is the problem --- it is the bulge in the shoulder that needs to be touched by the shoulder in the die...

...in theory .. if you force the case into the die as far as you can now, and the die and the shellholder are making contact when the case is being sized, then removing 5 thou from the die and adjusting so the die and the shellholder make contact with a case in the die, obviously the case would be 5 thou further into the die than previously...

there will still be some springback of the brass and you may have to remove even more from the die.... you won't know until you try it...go do it and after trying it report back....
 
I do not think you are sizing it properly.

The shellholder must firmly contact the die when a case is being sized.

Go back and size another making sure.

Cheers
 
OK, I'm bringing this topic back up because I have been tinkering with this crap for 2 months now and still can't get the damn brass sized properly. The problem is still an ever so slight bulge right below the shoulder on the body of the brass. I have tried backing the die right out to as high as it will go and still size the neck properly. I have tried as low as the die will go (IE getting the brass RIGHT IN THERE), and everything in between and still the brass is coming out mishapen...

ANYONE have any fresh ideas on the problem?
 
try 'shimming' the case in the shellholder with scotch tape on the base of the case, until you can barely slip it into the shellholder, then try sizing it with the shellholder going right up tight to the bottom of the die. If this helps, then your die is too deep and/or your shellholder is too deep.

When you do this, mark the shoulder of the case with smoke, grease pencil, or lipstick, and verify that the sholder of the die is contacting and setting back the shoulder of the case

as mentioned before, when you resize a very straight bodied case, like a wsm or an AI, the shoulder tends to move forward slightly.
 
As guntech said grind a few thou off the die. My son had the same problem with a magnum cartridge a few days ago, and tried everything to no avail. Necks thickened? Full length size with the expander plug removed. No difference. Dirty chamber, incorrect die adjustment, measure everything, ejector pin stuck, yadda yadda yadda, nothing worked. Seat the die down far enought so the press linkage toggled over center with a snap and the problem was solved---for now.

This is apparently not unusual with older brass in belted cartridges, and a US company has come up with this new die as an expensive fix. Search Innovative Technologies for their answer.

Five minutes with a bench grinder is a whole lot faster and cheaper. Works too.:D
 
I have run into this problem several times over the years, and not just with minimum taper cases. My latest was a custom 22-250 with a very nice snug chamber. My Redding FL die would not size brass fired in a different chamber enough for it to chamber in this rifle. Even brass fired in the rifle chambered with a distinct snugness after sizing. I chucked the die body in a Valve stem refacer and ground .007" off the bottom of the die. Perfect!! Now it will size any brass so it chambers with just a tiny bit of "feel" as you close the bolt. The rifle is superbly accurate and gets great velocities with less powder than the books give as max. Regards, Eagleye.
 
ryanb said:
OK, I'm bringing this topic back up because I have been tinkering with this crap for 2 months now and still can't get the damn brass sized properly. The problem is still an ever so slight bulge right below the shoulder on the body of the brass. I have tried backing the die right out to as high as it will go and still size the neck properly. I have tried as low as the die will go (IE getting the brass RIGHT IN THERE), and everything in between and still the brass is coming out mishapen...

ANYONE have any fresh ideas on the problem?

Did you try any of the suggestions here? Or are you just back to waste our time?
 
If its a wsm you need to bump the shoulder back a few thou .
Check out shortmag site ,http://www.netrifle.com/forum1/default.asp
Heres what they have to say about the problem.

We get many posts from folks loading the short mags for the first time who are puzzled when their handloads will not chamber easily. Though there are a number of possible causes, in nearly every case the problem is caused by the sizing die not being set up properly.

Short answer - Here are two quotes from previous threads that will point you in the right direction:

"Many of us find we have to get all the sizing the die can provide. That means not only bumping the shell holder, but making sure all spring is removed from the press linkage. That means there should be resistance at the end of the stroke as the press cams over. - Moderator"

"This is a problem we solved here almost 3 years ago with the ShortMags. You need to 'bump' the brass case shoulder back about 2 to 3 thou. Get yourself the Stoney Point Head & Shoulder Gauge. Take measurements of the case and then set your FL sizing die to move the shoulder back about 0.002" to start and they should slip right in to your chamber. I wouldn't move the shoulder more than 4 or 5 thou though, you then get into working the brass too much. - Hunt-Nut"

Long answer - First, full-length re-size. Neck sizing does not work well with the short mags for most reloaders.

Second, you can NOT setup your sizing die in the same manner you are used to with standard cartridges. You will need to get virtually all the sizing your dies can provide. To do that, you will need to adjust your die down further than you are used to - down past contact with the shellholder. You will need to have it require extra force to get the press handle to "cam over" at the end of its stroke. This extra effort removes all the 'play' in your linkage and gives you the little extra bit of sizing the short mags need.

To do this right, getting enough sizing for easy chambering but without overworking the brass (if that's even possible with your press/die combo), you need to be setting the shoulder back approximately .002". One of the easiest and least expensive ways to check this is to use the Stoney Point device made for this purpose. It's called the Head 'n Shoulders Cartridge Headspace Gauge. Read about it at the Stoney Point site. It is not expensive - here's one good place to get it.

Once you have the gauge on hand, you can measure the shoulder position on your fired, unsized cases. After res-sizing, measuring again should show the shoulder moved back aboout .002". You may be surprised to find that if you have not turned your sizing die in further than normal, the shoulder may not be moved back at all. Turn the sizer die in in small increments, just a small fraction of a turn, until you get the target amount of shoulder set back. If your dies allow for more than .002" of set back, going further will shorten brass life so if .002" solves your chambering problem, stop there.

If you have followed these instructions and still have problems with difficult chambering of handloads (even though factory loads chamber fine) - then start a new thread in the reloading procedures section and note that you have already tried the procedure in the FAQ section. We will help you figure what else may be causing the problem.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." - George Washington
 
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Yes I tried every suggestion posted here, except shaving the die and shell-holder. Finally decided I might as well give it a try since I was getting nowhere. Well I have partially solved the problem now...

I did some tests and found that the shoulder was making contact with the shoulder area of the die, but the shoulder was too far forward as described in blue ridge's post. Shaved 4 thou off the die, but there is a problem...

Now pushing the shoulder back is a matter of force, not press range...so one in 4 brass I'm putting a bit too much force and collapsing the shoulder. It is rather difficult to get the amount of force just right, and it doesn't take much more to collapse the shoulder. This also leads me to believe that I'm going to have consistency issues with the brass, but I did fire a 1/2" group at the range today with the new "easy to chamber brass"...

I may just get a different set of dies...maybe some LEE dies are the answer :)
 
Hi guys,
Just bought RCBS 300WSM dies for reloading my Browning Shortrac.
First brass after full sized,primed and reloaded just to try in chamber...
Did not fitted...Bolt don't close all the way but if I push it with my thumb,
with no effort it closed...Not good for a semi...
After searching the internet and here,I shaved the top of my shell holder,
.005 and tried the reseized brass whithout bullet and it is working well now.
Later this week I will reload a batch and if something go wrong,I will tell
you guys...Thanks
 
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Yes, neck well lubed. I'd be interested to hear from others with different brands of dies (other than RCBS) for the WSM if your brass is being resized properly.
 
Is there any chance you have the wrong shell holder or at least a defective one. Are the dies and shell holder from the same manufacture. I believe RCBS or was it Redding have shell holders that come in different thicknesses to adjust for cases like this. Just a thought.
 
I have a set of RCBS in .270. They work great for my M98, but I have the same problem with the same piece of brass in my buddies Parker hale. I got a set of Lyman dies and the problem was solved.
 
Yes the correct shellholder was used. Overall I'm not terribly impressed with the quality of the rcbs dies versus my LEE carbide 44 mag dies. I know LEE is supposed to be the cheap brand, but they just seem better made and engineered that the RCBS dies. I think I'll buy some LEE dies for my WSM.
 
Did made a batch with .005 shaved shell holder and it is chambering
very well now in my Browning Shortrac 300WSM.
Don't forget to lube inside the neck.
 
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