Considering a foray into the world of plastic pistols

Shanks4300

Shanks4300

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Not the ones my 6 year old has, real ones. Any real pros/ cons to going Glock over M&P or vice versa? How about the Springfield line? Anyone have experience with all three? Am I missing anything reasonably mainstream?

I've handled the Glock and the smith, can't find the xdm line anywhere local to feel up. Looking for something good for recreational shooting and hopefully some idpa fun this fall/winter. I have, or have had in the past 1911's, CZs, berettas, tanfoglio and S&W autos. Gotta give the polymer world a try.

All input appreciated, smarta$$, sarcastic included; threads are kind of boring without it.
 
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Many choices out there.
Bottom line - it's getting harder and harder to find a really bad pistol among plastic crowd.
From Ruger SR9, thru M&P and Glock to Walther and H&K.
These pistols generally work.
Look at the availability of parts and aftermarket options - this way You can personalize your pistol up to your liking.
 
What Nestor said.

Also, because the overall quality of today's modern handguns is such that reliability is no longer usually a giant "what IF?!?" but rather what you can depend your life on...you have a much wider selection to choose. In the early 1980's there was actually VERY few choices for serious and dependable handguns...either you got a revolver, or you chose a Browning HiPower, a Colt 1911, a S&W auto, or one of them foreigner Berettas! There was lots more guns out there than that, but most of the rest didn't have that great a track record on reliability, and mileage durability.

IMO handguns need to "fit" your hand, and have a trigger you really like. You need to "try them on for a test drive", before you choose one. That's the beauty of having so many handguns today that are dependable: you can pick and choose. For instance, the Glock, M&P and Springfield XD (also known as an HS2000) are at their core, basically Glock derived designs. And all three are known to be good. But while mechanically nearly the same, they feel VERY different from each other in your hand. And that's a good thing: choice to get what fits your preferences the best. While I do like all three, I could rank how I prefer those three...but that would be useless to you, because your preference is likely different.

My advice is simple: you have to try them all out before you buy. They'll fit your hand differently. They'll "point" differently. The triggers, while generally mechanically the same...actually feel quite different from each other, because of pull distance, trigger shape, the springs' weight, the actual precise angle at which they "release" the striker...a tiny variation on any of those things can change how the trigger feels, and whether you'll like it, more than you'd think.

So when you go to the range, bring a box of 9mm, .40 and .45 with you, and if you see someone with a tupperware gun that you'd consider, ask them if they mind you taking a look, and maybe try it with your own ammo. Or, you could see if there are any "rental ranges" in your area, Alberta has many of them, and most seem to have a selection of somewhere between 6 and 10 different handguns to rent/try.
 
One thing that has always bothered me is planned obsolescence. virtually every product you touch has been designed specifically to have a limited useful life. They can make a can opener that would last forever but they don't because our consumption driven society will not allow it. One area that I have been delighted to find less planned obsolescence than others is firearms. You see, in the past any firearms made for a military purpose were designed to be the best they could be. Failure on the battlefield was not an option so it was never part of the design.

Unfortunately for the anti crowd these well designed firearms proved to be remarkably persistent with a great many still in operating condition 100 or more years later.

If you decide to purchase a polymer firearm you have to accept the fact that planned obsolescence is part of its design. It is inherent. It is the polymer itself. It may not fail in your lifetime but it certainly isn't going to last anywhere near as long as a steel firearm given the same storage conditions. Your Glock isn't an heirloom that will be passed down to endless generations. It is a tool that will be discarded at the end of its useful life.
 
Clotho said:
One thing that has always bothered me is planned obsolescence. virtually every product you touch has been designed specifically to have a limited useful life. They can make a can opener that would last forever but they don't because our consumption driven society will not allow it. One area that I have been delighted to find less planned obsolescence than others is firearms. You see, in the past any firearms made for a military purpose were designed to be the best they could be. Failure on the battlefield was not an option so it was never part of the design.

Unfortunately for the anti crowd these well designed firearms proved to be remarkably persistent with a great many still in operating condition 100 or more years later.

If you decide to purchase a polymer firearm you have to accept the fact that planned obsolescence is part of its design. It is inherent. It is the polymer itself. It may not fail in your lifetime but it certainly isn't going to last anywhere near as long as a steel firearm given the same storage conditions. Your Glock isn't an heirloom that will be passed down to endless generations. It is a tool that will be discarded at the end of its useful life.
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Strangely enough, one of those polymer pistols is the most rebuildable handgun ever made - it'll never be an heirloom, but the M&P is the only pistol ever made with replaceable frame rails. There are ways to rebuild a 1911's frame rails, very expensive and requiring more time, skill and effort than they're worth, but the M&P's frame rails can be replaced for less than $50. I've put a ton of ammo through an M&P9, and I still don't think it needs this type of rebuild, but I may just do it for giggles. They're not all disposable.
 
enefgee said:
Strangely enough, one of those polymer pistols is the most rebuildable handgun ever made - it'll never be an heirloom, but the M&P is the only pistol ever made with replaceable frame rails. There are ways to rebuild a 1911's frame rails, very expensive and requiring more time, skill and effort than they're worth, but the M&P's frame rails can be replaced for less than $50. I've put a ton of ammo through an M&P9, and I still don't think it needs this type of rebuild, but I may just do it for giggles. They're not all disposable.
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That's nice.

In 100 years my 1873 St Etienne revolver will probably still function. I wouldn't be so sure about an M&P9. If it is still whole you probably wouldn't want to shoot it due to plastic embrittlement or some other deficiency put there on purpose by the engineers.

To many people this won't matter because they won't be here but it matters to me. The reason I'm interested in firearms is because my father collected them and they will be handed down to me someday. I look forward to passing them on when it comes my turn.

I'm glad you like your polymer pistol. They just aren't my cup of tea.
 
For a good introduction to plastic, I would strongly consider the M&P line. They're super-popular for many reasons; affordability, good throw-ins, and performance are all very attractive at the price point. I'm not worried about my guns as heirlooms since I plan to have all my worldly possessions fired into space with my cryogenically-preserved body just before my demise. If you're in the same or a somewhat-similar situation, I'd not hesitate to jump on an M&P range kit.

Personally, I really like the XD line even if they are kind of ugly. The XDm 5.25 handguns are extremely cool and I can't wait to buy one, having siphoned a friend's extensively during our shared range time. For a little IDPA competition, I can't see you going wrong in ESP with one of those bad boys. If you like the more conventional look the more conventional XDs are good pistols but the 5.25 has a lot more character and performance to boot in my opinion.

Others to consider:

- The H&K line. As an itty bitty man-baby I find the H&K's are generally too big but they might work great for you and they are superb products.

- The Taurus 24/7 is also out there with some Canadian-legal models and I've not had the chance to check them out personally. Some people can't get enough of ragging on Taurus but I've historically found their revolvers to be good for the price. Maybe the automatics are another story.

- Ruger has the SR handguns. I don't care for them much personally, but others seem to get on with them fine, so what do I know? The availability is, like all other Rugers, kind of spotty but you do find them for sale second-hand occasionally. The price on these is pretty good but I personally consider the M&P the better deal given all the extras you get.

- You mentioned you had CZs; if you want more of the same but OW IN PLASTIC, there's the CZ Phantom and P-07/09 lines. I haven't seen a 09 in person yet but I imagine they'll start showing up soon. The Phantom is a polymer mock-up of the more classic CZ designs while the P-07 is a bit different but still very CZ. I haven't shot the P-line personally but would love to try, and I can easily see a P-09 joining my collection in the near future. The Phantom I have used and it's pretty cool but won't provide you with much of a difference experience if that's what you're looking for.
 
Clotho said:
That's nice.

In 100 years my 1873 St Etienne revolver will probably still function. I wouldn't be so sure about an M&P9. If it is still whole you probably wouldn't want to shoot it due to plastic embrittlement or some other deficiency put there on purpose by the engineers.

To many people this won't matter because they won't be here but it matters to me. The reason I'm interested in firearms is because my father collected them and they will be handed down to me someday. I look forward to passing them on when it comes my turn.

I'm glad you like your polymer pistol. They just aren't my cup of tea.
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Then again, with the innovations that are being made with polymer, they may outlast metal. How many of the same revolvers from the 1800s have rusted away to dust?

Time destroys everything.
 
my att course was 2 days and I probably shot 5 or 6 different pistols. one thing that was very apparent was the 2 polymer guns (9mm) that I shot were terrible, at 12 yards my grouping was over a foot. I swore then never to buy one. the only thing that could change my mind is if CCW becomes law before my cold ass is in the ground. my current pistol is a heavy 45acp, it's a bit of a challenge but it fits my average size hands without issues and shoots very well. it was an internet purchase from freedom, tanfoglio model L.
 
The only polymer(plastic) HG's I've owned are Glocks. I avoided them for many years because they looked strange and because they had a plastic grip frame (can't be good right?!)
A few years ago I bought a BNIB gen3 G17 because I wanted to find out what all the hype was (good&bad). After testing it out and spending a weekend holster course and 2,000+ rnds later the Glock still looked pristine. No noticeable signs of holster wear or scratches, etc. The finish is tough! I don't think my blued and stainless guns would have held up cosmetically.
Glocks aren't perfect (no HG is IMO) but they are easy to work on/maintain and can take some abuse. Parts are plentiful. The short trigger reset is sweet.
I recently picked up a gen4 G21. Liked it so much I've sold off my "other" 45ACPs. I don't consider myself a Glockaholic Fanboy, etc., but they work for me....YMMV
 
Anyone have any experience with the P30L in dao? One of the other reasons I'm looking at plastic is also their tendency to be striker fired. Curious as to if it will make a better training/ practice platform; inso far as it should expose more flaws in shooting technique.
 
If you decide to purchase a polymer firearm you have to accept the fact that planned obsolescence is part of its design.
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From what I've read, Glocks, for example, generally won't suffer any kind of major failure that requires the scrapping of the entire gun until past 200,000 rounds. Will an old-timey steel frame design last longer? Maybe, maybe not. But for what you're getting- an affordable, high capacity, light weight, accurate, soft recoiling, goes-bang-every-time-reliable handgun that you can swap out parts for without hand fitting and often without tools, it's an undeniably good trade.

I'll take my tupperware every time.
 
Yeah I guess you could further separate the plastics into hammer and striker fired. Striker fired triggers range from ok to abysmal. Hammer fired are usually pretty decent in s/a
 
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