Contemplating a SMLE restoration, I have some questions.

mikeystew

mikeystew

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I've always wanted a full wood #1 mkIII but considering they sell for what they do, I though this might be an interesting route.

One of my employees has a sporterized one with the original uncut barrel and front sight, the middle one in this terrible pic.

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What kind of financial mess would I be looking at? What should I offer him for the gun?
Where would I find replacement forestock wood and how much/little could it cost me? Original sling?
Are there any other things to consider for this project? Stuff im not thinking about?
I want to make it as original as possible so im considering doin a garage park on the metal and refinishing the wood to original condition.

Thanks in advance for any insight.
 
That one has the Magazine Cutoff, so it likely is an early one. What information is on the Butt Socket, just under the Bolt Handle? It should give you the actual YEAR the rifle was made, where it was made and the precise Mark (which will be III) with or without a Star (*). That much will tell you HOW it should be restored.

Does it have ANY of the Volley Sight parts remaining? Some do (plate in the fore-end), others do not.

There was a period (late 1915, early 1916) when the design was very much in transition due to Wartime shortage of rifles and the difficulty in making this particular rifle. Shortcuts were taken which later became standard: mods to the Rear Sight, removal of the Magazine Cutoff, removal of the Volley Sights, modifications to the Chamber and so forth.

It IS possible to restore one of these rifles, but YOU have to pick just how far you want it "correct"..... and for what period. A 1909 rifle still in use in 1918, for example, likely would have had the Cutoff removed already and the Volley Sight assembly removed apart from the Plate remaining in the fore-end.

It can be confoozin'.

Most of the parts you will need can be sourced here or at your local gun show. Correct sling is on the bottom rifle in your photo!

In the States, Springfield Sporters has everything you would need, but they no longer ship to us. Too bad; their prices were just fine and the service was great.

That said, there are few rifles much more FUN to take to the range. They just get SO many stares when they are done up original.

They are a wonderful rifle in so many ways. For one thing, they have this pigsticker bayonet that stretches halfway to Sunday..... yet the rifle is wonderfully balanced WITH the thing or WITHOUT it. I have owned rifles of this type for nearly 50 years now and I STILL don't understand how that is, but it is.

The action is slicker'n greased whale-sn*t if you add a couple of drops of oil: FAST.

It is the single finest bayonet-fighting rifle ever built.

It is the toughest battle or hunting rifle ever built.

And, despite its quirks (and it does have some) it can STILL give a good run for the money to most 2012 "special purpose" or "sniper" rifles, iron sights, out at 1000 or 1200 yards.

Not terribly bad for a rifle that went into production 105 years ago!

Go for it!

Lotsa help here and in the L-E forum over on milsurps dot com.
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Smellie thanks! I'll look into this stuf tomorrow. I don't think there is any part of the volley sight remaining, but I could be wrong. I'll see it again in person tomorrow, the guy who has it took all the guns to his daughters over the weekend to see which ones her boyfriend wanted, and he took the .22 on bottom and the p17 on top... He got both slings.
 
People have been desporterizing SMLE's for a long, long time. As a result, the parts needed are not very commonly found shall we say.

Forend, upper and lower handguards, unsanded buttstocks...not so common. Nosecap, screws, band, springs...

A lot of the more reasonable forends like the cheaper ones at Springfield Sporters have Ishapore screws in them. :(

The other issue is, each maker and year had different variations of parts, different nosecaps, different type and colour of wood etc.

So, when you get done, you will have a bitster. (think one of those cars with each door a different colour, trunk lid, hood etc) A bitster is better than a sporter but not wildly valuable. There's a good chance you will have more into it than it is worth as a bitster.

I could be like Pollyanna and say everything is wonderful! :) Or I can be a bit realistic here.

Now, if you watch the EE like a hawk, untouched examples of the SMLE are still to be found. Everything would be as it should be.

Your call.
 
The pic I have of the buttsocket;
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Soo... 1916.

Honestly I'd be content for now just putting the wood back on it. I could fret over the little stuff later as I go.
 
Thanks cantom, I will keep that in mind before going ahead with anything here. Ill likely buy it anyway just because I can... From the look of the empty brass I saw from it, it looks like it headspaces real nice an has a good chamber for an enfield.
 
mikeystew said:
Thanks cantom, I will keep that in mind before going ahead with anything here. Ill likely buy it anyway just because I can... From the look of the empty brass I saw from it, it looks like it headspaces real nice an has a good chamber for an enfield.
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It certainly looks like a nice action Mike. If you had the correct part to hand it would be a no brainer to assemble it.
If you can find them anywhere?
 
Stock sets are out there. you get what you pay for. I've seen unissued sets for $300 to 400. On the other hand I've seen well used like you'll get from Gunparts or Springfield for less than $200. Set your budget and work within it. Best to let folks know what you're thinking and you'll get responses according. All the parts are available to put this back to original. You can get all the correct parts if you take some time to plan the project.
 
rgg_7 said:
Stock sets are out there. you get what you pay for. I've seen unissued sets for $300 to 400. On the other hand I've seen well used like you'll get from Gunparts or Springfield for less than $200. Set your budget and work within it. Best to let folks know what you're thinking and you'll get responses according. All the parts are available to put this back to original. You can get all the correct parts if you take some time to plan the project.
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Normally on an SMLE, the nosecap, rear sight, receiver and bolt all match.(did I forget something?) You won't find a matching nosecap. I once found one with no number on it, which is better than a mismatch.
 
cantom said:
Normally on an SMLE, the nosecap, rear sight, receiver and bolt all match.(did I forget something?) You won't find a matching nosecap. I once found one with no number on it, which is better than a mismatch.
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What do you mean by match, number? appearance? I could live with a mismatching number set.
 
I'm not super concerned about value to others... It's going to be a keeper for my own shooting/tinkering enjoyment. I just want the original look and feel the rifle should possess. As a keeper, I'm not going to get hung up on matching number stuff... I never look at that stuff anyway, I couldn't care less. As long as it looks and feels good.
 
It's been a couple years since I did a resto on a SMLE but $200 shouldn't be too far off base for a stock set and hardware, and perhaps even less. If you can get the whole thing together and in working order again for $300 or less, you have done well. More than that and it is still worth it, but your gun will always be less "collectible" to a purist. If you are not concerned about numbers matching, original dirt under the handguards, etc, then it is the perfect project for you, particularly as, in my opine, the pride involved in restoring something is a very valuable thing, too. Go for it, it's a lot of fun.
 
it can be restored quite easily you will find most of the parts you need at numerich gun parts.com.They wont have match numbers but it sure will be something to be proud of when its finished
 
Some of the "purists" really should read some of what Captain Peter Laidler has written concerning how the Armourers worked on these critters when they were actually in Service.

Read a few of his articles and posts and you quickly will get the (perfectly valid) idea that a pristine, 100% original rifle likely bears a great resemblance to the proverbial ugliest girl in Grade 8: a virgin, yes; also absolutely inexperienced.

I own perhaps ten or a dozen completely-matching rifles, of which exactly TWO can lay claim to REALLY being a part of History. These are a Ross which served overseas in the Great War in the Canadian Corps, then in the ugly night battle at Second Ypres, then in the Royal Navy, then in the Chilean Navy until retirement in 1968 and then being sold off for junk in 1975. Believe me, it SHOWS its service and it still shoots just fine, but it's a very long way from pristine or pretty. My other is an SMLE made by NRF in 1918 which served in both World Wars and got a lot of bashing-about but which evidently never was FTRd. It is all-matching but, as with most late-Wartime NRF rifles, it has a couple of recycled parts on it...... and it looks pretty bad.

ALL of my NEW and nearly-PERFECT rifles have never seen combat or even anything remotely like it. My Kar98k is still 99%.... but it is a late-Wartime rifle which obviously never was issued. Mytwo Krops are scrambled. I have a PERFECT SMLE, an Ishapore post-War rifle with all the late mods, but it was unfired until I got it; obviously, it never saw action. And I can go on and on: my PRISTINE 1944 Number 4 with exhibition-grade wood and no serial number.... obviously never issued.

My rifles which actually MADE History are the beat-up ones..... the 1940 Finn SVT, the beat-up old MNs, the Kar98aZ which served in at least 3 Armies and through at least 2 wars, my all-time Prize Rifle, my Never For Sale Mark I*** SMLE which I actually got from a barrel of scrap parts and rebuilt. They are REAL. And THEY are the ones which go to the range. They are the very Stuff of History.

But they sure ain't purty.

Believe me, friend, I understand.

There IS room for the mismatched, for the less-than-perfect, the beaten-around.

And that room is at the FRONT of the parade as far as I am concerned.

Sorry, Collectors, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
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Well, good news and bad news...

Good news is he gave me the rifle today for free! Also it has the most incredibly perfect and tight chamber and headspace of any old smle I've ever seen. It's crazy, it will feed and extract new brass perfectly but won't accept ANY of the collected range brass I have at all. Barely goes in half way, also the boxes of spent brass that he gave me with the rifle are not deformed in the slightest, they are shaped like new factory brass, no web bulge, perfect shoulder etc.

The bad news... The charger bridge has been cut off and the action has been drilled and tapped for a scope mount on the left side. Therefore I will not be restoring this one. I could plug and refinish the screw holes before parking, but the charger bridge is a must have feature for me as I have several stripper clips that I want to put into action someday :) oh well... Bit of a bummer, but now I've been bitten with the bug. I need to raise some funds to buy a full wood model now!
 
$300-$400 should get you a shootable one in good condition with a nice bore. I have two coming to me that are going to be AMAZING! Near mint No.1 Mk III* 1943 Lithgow (suposedly 40rnds through it ever) and a 1915 No.1 Mk III in very good condition with original cutoff and volley sights. This one has a very nice tiger stripe stock on her as well!!

They are amazing and the history behind them is incredible! Mount the bayonet on one and you will be holding one nasty bit of firepower! I can't imagine the German's were too happy trying to charge the lads that were holding these in their hands!

Grab one! You will not regret it... Well, your wallet/wife/girlfriend might because it will not be the last...

Ian
 
I agree...an SMLE with a fixed bayonet is a fearsome sight indeed! Quite the pigsticker, more of a sword than a bayonet. :eek:

Smitsauce said:
$300-$400 should get you a shootable one in good condition with a nice bore. I have two coming to me that are going to be AMAZING! Near mint No.1 Mk III* 1943 Lithgow (suposedly 40rnds through it ever) and a 1915 No.1 Mk III in very good condition with original cutoff and volley sights. This one has a very nice tiger stripe stock on her as well!!

They are amazing and the history behind them is incredible! Mount the bayonet on one and you will be holding one nasty bit of firepower! I can't imagine the German's were too happy trying to charge the lads that were holding these in their hands!

Grab one! You will not regret it... Well, your wallet/wife/girlfriend might because it will not be the last...

Ian
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