Controlled feed vs Push feed
- Thread starter JEC
- Start date
JEC said:
How a rifle feeds has nothing to do with locking up tight.
Accuracy wise I think the most accurate rifles made are push feed.
I think controlled feed is more of a thing with dangerous game hunting. The old school feels that type of rifle should have controlled feed.
Long Range Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Athabasca Alberta aka God's Country
My rifle has a Dakota 76 controlled feed action and shoot consistant 1/4moa with my special blend loads. I would put it up against any push feed and I know it would hold its own. But the action is only part of the recipee, its the entire package and how it functions together that makes an accurate rifle. Then it's up to the man behind the bolt to do his job. My rifle outperforms my personal ability. Quality parts, quality workmanship throughout the rifle is what makes an acurate rifle. After that its consistancy.
Just an opinion
Just an opinion
Here We Go Again
Push feeds were built as a cheap alternative to replace the CRF actions of the time which were and still are much more expensive to manufacture. The Remington is a good example how cheaply a gun can be built and still make the builder money. The Mauser 98 is still the most succesful military bolt action of all time and still copied in many ways because it's features cannot be improved for ultimate reliability and basically that is what the difference is between a push feed and a CRF, "reliability". Whether you are talking about a Mauser 98 ar any of it's offspring like the Winchester M70 pre 64 and modern classic, Ruger M77 MKII, Enfield P14/17, Remington 30, BRNO ZKK etc. etc. these are vastly more reliable actions under hunting conditions than any push feed action.
The big reason why so many of the accuracy actions sold today are push feed is because 99.9% of them do not have to feed anything at all, the rounds are hand inserted into the action and usually the fired case is hand picked out from the ejection port, the action is 9 out of 10 times cylindrical and easy to manufacture on a lathe where most of the work is done so everybody and his mother is popping off "bench rest actions", the tolerances on these actions are usually very tight and they would be probably the worst choice on which to build a hunting rifle because their reliability would be questionable! There again we come back to that mysterious word "RELIABILITY" that is what CRF actions do best and that's why most of the worlds armies chose CRF actions for their bolt actions!
IMHO
bigbull
Push feeds were built as a cheap alternative to replace the CRF actions of the time which were and still are much more expensive to manufacture. The Remington is a good example how cheaply a gun can be built and still make the builder money. The Mauser 98 is still the most succesful military bolt action of all time and still copied in many ways because it's features cannot be improved for ultimate reliability and basically that is what the difference is between a push feed and a CRF, "reliability". Whether you are talking about a Mauser 98 ar any of it's offspring like the Winchester M70 pre 64 and modern classic, Ruger M77 MKII, Enfield P14/17, Remington 30, BRNO ZKK etc. etc. these are vastly more reliable actions under hunting conditions than any push feed action.
The big reason why so many of the accuracy actions sold today are push feed is because 99.9% of them do not have to feed anything at all, the rounds are hand inserted into the action and usually the fired case is hand picked out from the ejection port, the action is 9 out of 10 times cylindrical and easy to manufacture on a lathe where most of the work is done so everybody and his mother is popping off "bench rest actions", the tolerances on these actions are usually very tight and they would be probably the worst choice on which to build a hunting rifle because their reliability would be questionable! There again we come back to that mysterious word "RELIABILITY" that is what CRF actions do best and that's why most of the worlds armies chose CRF actions for their bolt actions!
IMHO
bigbull
So that must be why most law enforcement agencies and military snipers use remington 700 actions (also the chosen action by Marine snipers over the Model 70)? If we're talking about reliability, how much more reliable could you get than a simple push feed action like a 700, not to mention that you can cycle rounds through the gun upside down, on its side, whatever. IMHO a controlled feed action is no better than a push feed.
I also have to point out that a custom action would make an excellent hunting rifle, the tighter tolerances make it even better. The only place you may run into difficulties is if you have a custom barrel with a tight chamber which could cause problems if your not shooting match ammo or reloads. Companies like Nesika market some of their actions towards hunters looking for accuracy, and there is no way you can convince me that a Nesika action would not be reliable.
If we're talking about reliability, how much more reliable could you get than a simple push feed action like a 700, not to mention that you can cycle rounds through the gun upside down, on its side, whatever. IMHO a controlled feed action is no better than a push feed.I also have to point out that a custom action would make an excellent hunting rifle, the tighter tolerances make it even better. The only place you may run into difficulties is if you have a custom barrel with a tight chamber which could cause problems if your not shooting match ammo or reloads. Companies like Nesika market some of their actions towards hunters looking for accuracy, and there is no way you can convince me that a Nesika action would not be reliable.
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In addition to the 'old school' curmudgeons, every PH in Africa agrees that CRF is the only way to go for a DG rifle. All of them. 100%. But thanks for coming out...
bingo1010 said:Never did understand the mentallity of the "dangerous game" thing. take your push feed rifle and try to get it to malfunction, takes some pretty serious effort. old school is out
I'm thankful I'm to cheap and poor to hunt dangerous game, unless one can classify groundhogs as dangerous game. I mean when I turn my ankle as I accidentally step into a grass covered earth pig hole here in Central Ontario.... LOL
In the meantime, a push feed works well for the girls I go out with. My wife's Stealth II is a Controlled Round Push Feed. Does that count ?
Cheers,
Barney
In the meantime, a push feed works well for the girls I go out with. My wife's Stealth II is a Controlled Round Push Feed. Does that count ?
Cheers,
Barney
It's a very inovative idea and a great compromise, a testament that you don't need a long extractor to achieve true CRF in any action that has not been designed from the very beginning to have one, the only other mod. required is a fixed ejector which is alot easier to add to the action than a long extractor. Funny thing that so many people argue the merits of CRF or so it seems but when you take the time to look around it is quite clear that there is a CRF explosion, first with Winchester bringing back the Pre 64 type action then Ruger redesigning their M77 into the MK II which is of coarse CRF now, Savage coming out with their own rendition of the Winchester CRPF and now Sako with the model 85 which is also a CRF action, If you ask me it looks like people are deffinetly asking for more CRF actions and not swallowing what the nay sayers are preaching.Hungry said:
bigbull
the apocalypse is upon us...Do some CRF rifles' cartridges have to feed from the magazine? What happens if a cartridge for some reason gets pushed forward in front of the extractor?
Seems many DG guides prefer the reliabilty of a double over anything.
Seems many DG guides prefer the reliabilty of a double over anything.
bisonhd said:
Yes CRF actions should be fed from the mag. My CRF actions feed either way, the only thing that is required to make a CRF work either way is a small modification to the claw extractor. Yes some DG guides prefer doubles but mostly because of the speed in getting the second shot off, if you had to reload a double in a hurry though, OMG.
bigbull
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okay everybody lets put a new twist on things. in respect to dangerous game what would we call combat situations? is this comparable to dangerous game...in my opinion HELL YA. so what does the most powerful nation in the world use.... push feed remingtons. lets also look at the semi auto rifles, if controlled round is sooo damn good surely someone would have come out with a semi auto controlled round gun no? can the AR not really be seen as a push feed? let the comments come!!
Totally agree with Bingo. I had both system and liked both. But in my own experience, even if i think that some big critters can be dangerous, I think that none of them can equal an opposing soldier or criminal trying to kill you.
As far as I'm concern, the Rem 700 is one of most used action for building sniper rifles and, again, for fighting against one of the most dangerous creature on earth: the SOB in front of firing back.
But I still hope that the Winchester 70 CRF action will rise again
As far as I'm concern, the Rem 700 is one of most used action for building sniper rifles and, again, for fighting against one of the most dangerous creature on earth: the SOB in front of firing back.
But I still hope that the Winchester 70 CRF action will rise again
In a hunting rifle, the CRF vs. push feed issue is nearly meaningless. Either system may or may not function perfectly. If a particular rifle does function well; it matters not which system it uses.
In the area of precision shooting, it is much the same. In most target applications, shots are fired singly. In those competitions where rapid fire is necessary, push feeds seem to work just fine. For myself, I don't care! Regards, Bill.
In the area of precision shooting, it is much the same. In most target applications, shots are fired singly. In those competitions where rapid fire is necessary, push feeds seem to work just fine. For myself, I don't care! Regards, Bill.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Savage has been making CRPF actions for many many years.
Jerry
Jerry
