What is everyone's take on copper fouling? Should it be removed every cleaning? Is it as important as removing carbon? I have read a few articles saying that it is beneficial to accuracy, and a few saying its bad for accuracy. I pulled a few of my rifles out of the safe today for an inspection and my Remington 700 hasn't been fired or cleaned since hunting season. There is noticeable copper streaks at the muzzle end, I know it's easily removed with different bore cleaners but do I really have to?
Copper fouling
- Thread starter 0neshot
- Start date
I have never seen copper improve accuracy it always gives me vertical and poor grouping when it's present, some barrels will pick up more than others .
Small traces of it don't seem to have any effect but blue patches do in my experience.
Small traces of it don't seem to have any effect but blue patches do in my experience.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
It all depends on the rifle and barrel quality in my experience. I have a .22 heavy barrel that likes a little copper in the barrel and a .308 Savage barrel that likes it as well. However my Kreiger barrel does not seem to like very much at all. I don't let the copper build up to much in the ones that like it, but my groups get a hell of a lot tighter once I foul it them up a bit. I actually fire 20 copper plated rounds through a clean barrel on the .22 and then switch to non-copper plated and it seems to works really well. Some say the copper makes for less friction and helps smooth out the burs left in factory barrels but who knows for sure.
My suggestion would be to shoot the rifle until the groups open up, then remove copper. Also, your regular cleaning regime will eliminate a lot of the copper. For example, my .223 with a Shilen 1:8 twist HV barrel has been shot about 800 times. No noticeable change in accuracy. I decided to remove the copper anyway only to find that there really wasn't any. I can only assume that my cleaning/brushing with MPro-7 had something to do with that.
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
There are benchrest shooters that clean fanatically after every string and they swear by it. There are those that say "if it aint broke, don't fix it" and clean only when accuracy drops off. I fall towards the latter but depends on the gun. Cleaning is not always a benign process. It is very easy to damage crowns. Most factory guns strip copper more than a lapped barrel but that doesn't mean they don't shoot. I would start with a clean barrel and if you get it dialed in and it stays there, minimize your cleaning intervals.
I don't clean barrels much. That's not entirely laziness, since I have no problem cleaning everything but the bore and putting them away. I also tend to go home when its raining. The biggest thing is its a pretty rare rifle that shoots better clean than dirty, and I've found that for the most part that when I scrub everything out of the barrel I just have to turn around and put it back in again. I live in a dry climate a long ways from an ocean, and long term storage of a dirty barrel doesn't hurt anything. Others live in wet climates near oceans. Logically, moving is the best course of action, but barring that scrubbing it down to bare metal pumping the oils and grease to it might delay the inevitable.
Here's a Barsness article that wont clear it up, but is at least entertaining. At least its more fun than cleaning barrels.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-10/20091015104116-cleanbarrel.pdf
Here's a Barsness article that wont clear it up, but is at least entertaining. At least its more fun than cleaning barrels.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-10/20091015104116-cleanbarrel.pdf
Some rifles need cleaning more often, others not so much, there isn't any fixed pattern, you just have to watch your rifle how it reacts. Now this goes for copper fouling. As for carbon, yes you do want to clean it up often, ideally after each shooting session but you only use oil for that or carbon only remover. My long range rifle likes a little bit of copper layer in it but if I shoot too many rounds thru it the pressures start building up. Rifles that generally like a little bit of copper lining tend to have grouping opened up after a fresh clean and may require 10-20 rounds to return to previous accuracy.
The best way to find our, clean up your barrel thoroughly and then watch your accuracy. If your grouping tightens up after 10-20 rounds and stays that way, that is what your rifle likes. At that point you need to watch your casings for signs of high pressure as well as watch your barrel crown for copper residue being pushed out. Keep track of your rounds fired and when things start changing such as for example grouping is still good but it is overall rising on your target, or your casings and shooting experience shows signs of rising pressure, clean up your barrel again and see what happens.
The best way to find our, clean up your barrel thoroughly and then watch your accuracy. If your grouping tightens up after 10-20 rounds and stays that way, that is what your rifle likes. At that point you need to watch your casings for signs of high pressure as well as watch your barrel crown for copper residue being pushed out. Keep track of your rounds fired and when things start changing such as for example grouping is still good but it is overall rising on your target, or your casings and shooting experience shows signs of rising pressure, clean up your barrel again and see what happens.
My bartlein and McLennan barrels don't really collect any copper so to speak, but i once had a savage in 300wm that wouldn't shoot until it was jammed up with copper. The rifling in that barrel looked like it was cut by Michael j fox sporting a hand chisel.
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