Copper plated verses lead bullets (45LC) ?
- Thread starter Brianma65
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Treat them as Cast for reloading recipes, but they can be driven a little faster than cast. I want to say that I think I had read it was around 200-400 fps faster than just cast IIRC, but there's a lot more knowledgeable people on here who probably know the exact number.
Copper plated bullets are not all the same thickness. Campro bullets from Quebec have an .008 thick plating, while the industry standard according to them is .003.
They recommend starting loads at the bottom end of jacketed load data, although you can push them to higher velocities.
Do not load them to minimum lead bullet loads, you could stick one in the barrel. That could ruin your day.
They require more powder for a starting load because there is more friction than cast or swaged lead.
The advantages to plated vs cast/swaged is no leading of the barrel, and less lead in the air, which is a good thing for indoor shooting.
The price is usually a bit higher than lead, but a lot less than jacketed.
Some require maximum performance from a bullet for different reasons, and these are probably not the best choice for them, jacketed being the way to go, but for practice ammo, they are a good choice.
They recommend starting loads at the bottom end of jacketed load data, although you can push them to higher velocities.
Do not load them to minimum lead bullet loads, you could stick one in the barrel. That could ruin your day.
They require more powder for a starting load because there is more friction than cast or swaged lead.
The advantages to plated vs cast/swaged is no leading of the barrel, and less lead in the air, which is a good thing for indoor shooting.
The price is usually a bit higher than lead, but a lot less than jacketed.
Some require maximum performance from a bullet for different reasons, and these are probably not the best choice for them, jacketed being the way to go, but for practice ammo, they are a good choice.
One big difference between plated and cast is lead hardness. Cast bullets come in everything from very soft pure lead to extra hard 25 bhn high antimony alloy. Most plated bullets use a similar lead to that in jacketed bullets which is pretty soft. This can mean you get wonky accuracy if you push the velocity too high unless the bullets have very thick plating. My only experience is with Berry's plated bullets and found them to be very soft and had to keep velocities down. Campro, as mentioned, use much thicker copper plating so are supposed to be able to handle jacketed velocities in many cartridges. I've been meaning to try some Campro but haven't gotten around to it yet.
With standard 45lc loads you are talking about black powder pressures designed for fairly soft lead bullets. You can probably load to max even with soft bullets with thin plating. If you are going into the heavier loads meant for Ruger, TC, or other firearms that can handle the higher pressure I would load up carefully.
With standard 45lc loads you are talking about black powder pressures designed for fairly soft lead bullets. You can probably load to max even with soft bullets with thin plating. If you are going into the heavier loads meant for Ruger, TC, or other firearms that can handle the higher pressure I would load up carefully.
I haven't noticed any velocity differences with Berry's plated versus my own cast bullets. To get a bullet stuck in a barrel you have to go pretty low in terms of velocity. I was playing around with loads in a 44 mag rifle (long barrel, easier to get a bullet stuck) to see how low i could go (I was checking the bore after each shot). I did manage a squib that stuck a bullet in the barrel but I was down around 500fps at this point. Even my mouse-fart 700-800fps loads have no issue exiting the barrel.
Ok so there is lead , plated and jacketed.? Berrys are plated ? Xtp are jacketed ? Which one are better? I have a uberti .45 lc. Hodgens data has a load for xtp and CFE pistol ( I already have the powder). I'd just stick with the lead , but powder is rarer than hens teeth.
-Lead means bare lead. Some are swagged (compression formed) and others are cast. Their most easily identified by rings of coloured wax based lube around their shanks but not all have this.
-Plated are lead bullets (either swagged or cast) which have been copper plated. As stated the thickness ranges from .003" to .008" (a piece of computer printer paper is around .004" for reference).
-Jacketed bullets have thick copper jackets that the lead cores are swagged into under very high pressure. Many hunting style bullets use a mechanical or chemical bonding process to keep the lead core from separating from the copper jacket once the bullet hits the target and starts to deform (people generally don't like hundreds of tiny lead pieces in their meat).
Jacketed can also be moly coated (molybdenum, a high pressure dry lubricant) which turns them metallic-black in colour.
There are also some swagged solid lead bullets that don't have lube rings/grooves around their shank so they can look like moly bullets.
Generally only rifle bullets are molly coated so if the bullets you're looking at are pistol bullets, they are probably aren't moly coated and are most likely swagged lead.
There are also solid brass bullets but those are most often for African dangerous game hunting (elephant, hippo, water buffalo, etc.)
There are also solid copper bullets under various brand names. Barnes TSX, TTSX, MRX, and others. Hornady GMX, and various others. These expand like hollow points and are meant as a lead-free alternative for conventional hunting.
There are also steel jacketed bullets as well as bimetal (steel jacket that is copper plated over a lead core). These use mild steel which isn't supposed to damage barrels.
It gets even more confusing when you get into acronyms. Some brands use TMJ (total metal jacket) to mean copper plated while other brands use the same acronym to mean copper jacketed with sealed bases; usually a copper disk covering the normally exposed lead in the base of a FMJ bullet.
If a bullet is a hollow point, soft point, or has any lead exposed on the tip or base (or has a plastic tip on the bullet), you are almost guaranteed it's a jacketed bullet. These are your standard $25-30 per 100 for .30 cal. If we're talking 45 you might be looking at $40/100. Depending on where you shop prices can be all over the place. XTP's are hollow points with exposed lead inside the hollows so they must be jacketed.
If a bullet is totally covered in copper with no exposed lead, not even at the base, they are most likely copper plated. These normally run under $20/100 for the major calibers. .224" bullets will usually be cheaper. Campro from Budget Shooter Supply for example are $80/500 for the 240gr .44 mag bullets.
You can always check the product lineup on the companies website. Hornady doesn't make any copper plated bullets; just jacketed, moly coated, and lead swagged. Berry's are famous for copper plated bullets and I think that's all they make. Campro are the same as Berry's.
What's "best" is dependant on your firearm and what you're using it for. Soft lead bullets are low velocity limits (~1500fps) but expand well even if their solid. Hard lead have higher velocities (~2200fps) but don't really expand at all. Solid copper bullets are known for needing higher velocities (2700fps+) to expand properly but have a maximum velocity higher than you'll reach in any conventional firearm (past 4000fps). Jacketed bullets also have very high velocity limits (3000-4000fps+) depending on construction and shape. Copper plated bullets range from soft lead to jacketed velocities depending on the manufacturer.
Lead bullets cost the least, plated bullets cost only a little more, jacketed bullets can be expensive, and solid copper bullets can be very expensive.
If you're loading normal pressure 45lc ammo (black powder equivalent) then you can use bare lead as you wont be pushing the bullets past the velocity limit. Of course lead bullets have other special considerations to prevent leading (leaving lead deposits in your barrel) such as matching hardness, RPM, and velocity as well as having the bullets sized properly and often needing to flare the case necks.
Personally, for 45lc velocities if target shooting, I'd go for plated. If hunting I'd go for a premium jacketed bullet like an XTP.
-Plated are lead bullets (either swagged or cast) which have been copper plated. As stated the thickness ranges from .003" to .008" (a piece of computer printer paper is around .004" for reference).
-Jacketed bullets have thick copper jackets that the lead cores are swagged into under very high pressure. Many hunting style bullets use a mechanical or chemical bonding process to keep the lead core from separating from the copper jacket once the bullet hits the target and starts to deform (people generally don't like hundreds of tiny lead pieces in their meat).
Jacketed can also be moly coated (molybdenum, a high pressure dry lubricant) which turns them metallic-black in colour.
There are also some swagged solid lead bullets that don't have lube rings/grooves around their shank so they can look like moly bullets.
Generally only rifle bullets are molly coated so if the bullets you're looking at are pistol bullets, they are probably aren't moly coated and are most likely swagged lead.
There are also solid brass bullets but those are most often for African dangerous game hunting (elephant, hippo, water buffalo, etc.)
There are also solid copper bullets under various brand names. Barnes TSX, TTSX, MRX, and others. Hornady GMX, and various others. These expand like hollow points and are meant as a lead-free alternative for conventional hunting.
There are also steel jacketed bullets as well as bimetal (steel jacket that is copper plated over a lead core). These use mild steel which isn't supposed to damage barrels.
It gets even more confusing when you get into acronyms. Some brands use TMJ (total metal jacket) to mean copper plated while other brands use the same acronym to mean copper jacketed with sealed bases; usually a copper disk covering the normally exposed lead in the base of a FMJ bullet.
If a bullet is a hollow point, soft point, or has any lead exposed on the tip or base (or has a plastic tip on the bullet), you are almost guaranteed it's a jacketed bullet. These are your standard $25-30 per 100 for .30 cal. If we're talking 45 you might be looking at $40/100. Depending on where you shop prices can be all over the place. XTP's are hollow points with exposed lead inside the hollows so they must be jacketed.
If a bullet is totally covered in copper with no exposed lead, not even at the base, they are most likely copper plated. These normally run under $20/100 for the major calibers. .224" bullets will usually be cheaper. Campro from Budget Shooter Supply for example are $80/500 for the 240gr .44 mag bullets.
You can always check the product lineup on the companies website. Hornady doesn't make any copper plated bullets; just jacketed, moly coated, and lead swagged. Berry's are famous for copper plated bullets and I think that's all they make. Campro are the same as Berry's.
What's "best" is dependant on your firearm and what you're using it for. Soft lead bullets are low velocity limits (~1500fps) but expand well even if their solid. Hard lead have higher velocities (~2200fps) but don't really expand at all. Solid copper bullets are known for needing higher velocities (2700fps+) to expand properly but have a maximum velocity higher than you'll reach in any conventional firearm (past 4000fps). Jacketed bullets also have very high velocity limits (3000-4000fps+) depending on construction and shape. Copper plated bullets range from soft lead to jacketed velocities depending on the manufacturer.
Lead bullets cost the least, plated bullets cost only a little more, jacketed bullets can be expensive, and solid copper bullets can be very expensive.
If you're loading normal pressure 45lc ammo (black powder equivalent) then you can use bare lead as you wont be pushing the bullets past the velocity limit. Of course lead bullets have other special considerations to prevent leading (leaving lead deposits in your barrel) such as matching hardness, RPM, and velocity as well as having the bullets sized properly and often needing to flare the case necks.
Personally, for 45lc velocities if target shooting, I'd go for plated. If hunting I'd go for a premium jacketed bullet like an XTP.
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FAQ: What is the difference between Plated/Jacketed/Cast bullets
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q8-c1-What_is_the_difference_between_PlatedJacketedCast_bullets.aspx
Berry's Preferred Plated bullets begin as a swaged lead core. The plating process works through electrolysis. The swaged lead cores are tumbled in an electrically charged bath containing high-grade copper ingots. The copper clings to the lead and the longer the bullets remain in the bath, the thicker the plating. Our bullets are plated to the correct size and then taken out of the bath.
Jacketed bullets start with a copper cup, which is "drawn up" into the form of a jacket. Lead is then swaged into the jacket.
Cast bullets are made up of lead that has been poured into a bullet mould. These bullets come in various hardness levels depending upon the alloy of the lead. All of our cast bullets are lubed and all have the same hardness (about 20 bhu). We distinguish between Hardcast and Cowboy only in that our Cowboy bullets are often used in Cowboy Action Shooting events.
Comparison:
Jacketed Bullets: Generally are most expensive but can be shot at magnum velocities and require less cleaning than Cast bullets.
Plated Bullets: Not as expensive as Jacketed and cleaner than lead but you'll want to stay away from magnum velocities when loading plated bullets.
Cast Bullets: Usually cost the least, but are very "dirty" and often cannot be used in indoor ranges.
FAQ: Load Data for Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-Load_Data_for_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx
We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.
Reloading The .45 Colt
http://www.reloadammo.com/45cload.htm
Below Rainier plated bullets and my Glock 40
Remember Google is your best friend for getting information right from the horses mouth.
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q8-c1-What_is_the_difference_between_PlatedJacketedCast_bullets.aspx
Berry's Preferred Plated bullets begin as a swaged lead core. The plating process works through electrolysis. The swaged lead cores are tumbled in an electrically charged bath containing high-grade copper ingots. The copper clings to the lead and the longer the bullets remain in the bath, the thicker the plating. Our bullets are plated to the correct size and then taken out of the bath.
Jacketed bullets start with a copper cup, which is "drawn up" into the form of a jacket. Lead is then swaged into the jacket.
Cast bullets are made up of lead that has been poured into a bullet mould. These bullets come in various hardness levels depending upon the alloy of the lead. All of our cast bullets are lubed and all have the same hardness (about 20 bhu). We distinguish between Hardcast and Cowboy only in that our Cowboy bullets are often used in Cowboy Action Shooting events.
Comparison:
Jacketed Bullets: Generally are most expensive but can be shot at magnum velocities and require less cleaning than Cast bullets.
Plated Bullets: Not as expensive as Jacketed and cleaner than lead but you'll want to stay away from magnum velocities when loading plated bullets.
Cast Bullets: Usually cost the least, but are very "dirty" and often cannot be used in indoor ranges.
FAQ: Load Data for Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-Load_Data_for_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx
We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.
Reloading The .45 Colt
http://www.reloadammo.com/45cload.htm
Below Rainier plated bullets and my Glock 40
Remember Google is your best friend for getting information right from the horses mouth.
If you intend to shoot SASS cowboy action then please remember that SASS only allows lead bullets at 1000 fps for pistol and 1400 fps for rifle. Absolutely, no plated or jacketed stuff allowed. Hope that doesn't confuse the issue too much.
Awesome, maybe I should have asked , what do anybody recommend? 
the reason I wa looking at the Hornady xtp is because there's load data for them and CFE pistol . I guess I could get some trail boss and berry,s copper plated. It's a little confusing isn't it, all I want to do is load up a few and go shooting... Lol what do you think of this load data ? Shouldn't blow my uberti apart huh? Attachments
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wellll , I'm in NL , AKA the rock.
Only cowboys around here are the Salt water cowboys , I'm afraid there's not much sass. I'm limited to paper punching and practicing my fast draw... Lol. I'm using CFE 223 for my XCR and CFE pistol for my handguns. It's nice and simple with only 2 types of powder. I've only been loading for a month and my brain is going on overload..ing Those are original 45lc loads so are kept to the kinds of velocities and pressures achieved with original black powder loadings. There are some really hotrodded 45lc loads around meant for specific firearms designed to handle higher pressure. I've seen a lot around 30k psi where as original loads are less than half that. If you contact Uberti you can probably find out what their maximum recommended pressure is (if they recommend +P rounds or not).
You don't need Trail Boss for Berry's plated bullets. The load you listed would work fine since it's well below the max velocity for soft lead plated bullets. That is if they are also 250gr bullets. Generally you load for the bullet weight, loading for the specific brand/type of bullet is usually unnecessary. As always, use the starting loads and work up.
Different types of bullets will have different dimensions and thus the same OAL can leave different amounts of room in the case. Less room means higher pressure. If you switch bullets, even if they're the same weight, you need to work your load up again.
You don't need Trail Boss for Berry's plated bullets. The load you listed would work fine since it's well below the max velocity for soft lead plated bullets. That is if they are also 250gr bullets. Generally you load for the bullet weight, loading for the specific brand/type of bullet is usually unnecessary. As always, use the starting loads and work up.
Different types of bullets will have different dimensions and thus the same OAL can leave different amounts of room in the case. Less room means higher pressure. If you switch bullets, even if they're the same weight, you need to work your load up again.
