Correct bolt for SMLE?

R

Roddy

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I have a Lee Enfield that I have had since I was a kid. It was left in storage at my grandpas and he took the bolt out of it. The bolt went missing and I have been looking for a replacement. I have heard there are several different models of bolts and I need the right one. How do I know which one fits this rifle? Is that something a gunsmith would have to determine?

Here is the data stamp off the rifle if it helps.

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That'd be a No 4 Mk II, not an SMLE. You need to buy a No.4 Enfield bolt. There are several different lengths of bolt head available for them as well. A headspace gauge set (a gunsmith might have the right one) will need to be consulted to determine which head is the right size for your rifle.
 
Is there a CGN sponsor who might be able to replace it? Marstar maybe? The rifle probably isnt worth a lot but it is not sporterized and I got my first deer with it so I would be willing to spend a bit of money to get the right bolt.
 
Marstar has most of the parts available, including a couple different sizes of bolt head. You might find a better price on a complete bolt though. Maybe there's an Enfield enthusiast nearby who could lend a hand?
 
Roddy said:
Is there a CGN sponsor who might be able to replace it? Marstar maybe? The rifle probably isnt worth a lot but it is not sporterized and I got my first deer with it so I would be willing to spend a bit of money to get the right bolt.
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I got my first deer with my No.4Mk.2 which is also not sporterised. For those reasons, I won't sell it. But...

If the bore is good it is unlikely that you couldn't get $400 for it in the EE. $500 with a bolt. Any No.4 or No.5 bolt will work, just be sure the bolt head is a size that achieves correct headspace. (Bolt heads are easy to swap, doesn't take a gunsmith, but a gunsmith is the most likely person to have the gauges to check the headspace.)

The No.4 was made in several Marks: Mark 1, Mark 1* during WWII, Mark 2 postwar, and Mark 1s and Mark 1*s later converted to the Mark 2's trigger attachment system were remarked as Mark 1/2 and Mark1/3 respectively. The bolt design remained the same for all Marks of No.4 rifle and the No.5 rifle, except they hollowed out the knob on the bolt handle for the No.5 rifle. But it's not exclusive, some No.4s got that, too.
 
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Well it's definitely not for sale. I would like to be able to shoot it again. Maybe I could order a bolt and different sized heads and then try to get someone local to check the headspace? Is there a way I could figure out which bolt head I would need? I was thinking of just mailing the entire rifle to someone who had the parts and could check the headspace.
 
The rifle was FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) likely shortly before it was sold out of service.

During FTR, every effort was made to bring the rifle to "new" condition. This included the fitting of bolts with head numbers as low as they could manage.

Given that bolt-heads were numbered 0, 1, 2 and 3, it is likely that your rifle would work with a 0 or a 1. A 2 was about the highest they would pass out during FTR because that gave them only the 3 before the rifle had to go back for FTR again.

Bolt-heads differed, supposedly, by about 10 thou apiece. Modern ammunition is sometimes so far from the original specs that it is possible to have rifle gauging PERFECT and still have 20 or 30 thou headspace OVER MAX. Remember always that the .303 headspaces on the RIM. As long as the cartridge goes into the chamber and is held by the Extractor, nothing too terrible can happen. The paranoia regarding "headspace, headspace" is a result of the American firearms press and their constant ballyhooing back in the 1950s and 1960s about the wonderful .30-'06 and how incredible careful you had to be with it. But the '06 is a RIMLESS cartridge, and a faulty extractor can allow it to go into the chamber too far.... and the results can be disastrous. With the rimmed .303, you don't have this problem.

Best bet is to get a bolt, install it, make sure that the rifle will accept a round. Get hold of someone who has the range of bolt-heads. If the rifle will not allow a round to chamber, go to a lower number of bolt-head until you find one that WILL let it chamber the round.

To get the best-shooting ammunition for your rifle, handloading is mandatory. Wrap a pony-tail tie or a small O-ring around the base of your store-bought cartridges, just forward of the rim, on their FIRST firing only; after that you won't need it. This will hold the round central in the chamber and hold it back against the boltface at the same time. You end up with brass which is fireformed for YOUR chamber. Now you simply neck-size this brass, load carefully and you are on the road to building PERFECT ammunition.... for YOUR rifle.

Wish you were a few hundred miles closer; we could suss this out in about 15 minutes.

Good luck!
 
smellie said:
The rifle was FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) likely shortly before it was sold out of service.

During FTR, every effort was made to bring the rifle to "new" condition. This included the fitting of bolts with head numbers as low as they could manage.

Given that bolt-heads were numbered 0, 1, 2 and 3, it is likely that your rifle would work with a 0 or a 1. A 2 was about the highest they would pass out during FTR because that gave them only the 3 before the rifle had to go back for FTR again.
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I hate to contradict you smellie, but look at the picture again. It was manufactured in 2/54, with a serial that makes it one of the fabled "Irish Contract" Rifles. Therefore, it might not have been FTR'd

Roddy, contact member GAIRLOCHIAN and see if he still has headspace gauges as seen here http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/796513-Target-Rifle-Stuff-amp-Enfield-Stuff-amp-Winchester-saddle-rings. You'll need a .064 and a .074. Get a bolt and several bolt heads and follow the instructions here.
 
@Cdn303:

Sorry, my goof.

Irish contract rifles tended to be in awfully decent condition when they were released, anyway. Any which I have seen were built very tight.
 
Roddy this is a very ,very bad shame indeed my friend. I have a similar Irish Contract made at the Fazakerly plant, it's a 1/54, S/N 316### and they are superb shooters.

If there is anyway to find that bolt, do whatever you can or means to do so. If it is in excellent condition and all matching right down to the magazine and wood as I think it is, it's worth a fair bit more than 500 dollars.

I'm feeling your pain right now. We need to find that bolt with the same pretty white serial numbers on it!!!!
 
RememberTheSomme said:
Roddy this is a very ,very bad shame indeed my friend. I have a similar Irish Contract made at the Fazakerly plant, it's a 1/54, S/N 316### and they are superb shooters.

If there is anyway to find that bolt, do whatever you can or means to do so. If it is in excellent condition and all matching right down to the magazine and wood as I think it is, it's worth a fair bit more than 500 dollars.

I'm feeling your pain right now. We need to find that bolt with the same pretty white serial numbers on it!!!!
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I think that bolt is gone sadly :( My grandfather passed away last year and I haven't seen the bolt in years. The rifle cost around $200 and I thought that was a bit steep at the time. I guess not.
 
Mine was about $200 from S.I.R. and I, too, thought that was a relatively high price, but one with full wood was what I wanted and I didn't know when and where to expect to find another. So the fact that its market value went up quite a bit quite quickly is somewhat gratifying, but moot because it's also my "never sell" gun (partly because I got my first deer with it.)
 
I have head space gauges that I can loan you once you have a bolt.

I'll go one better, once you source a bolt I'll use my spare bolt heads and gauges to determine what bolt head you need so your not wasting funds on buying several bolt heads to see what works.
 
You need any bolt for a No. 4 Rifle, plus a handful of bolt heads with all the numbers and a full set of proper headspace guages. Or a smithy who has 'em. Bolts are not a drop in parts. The Mk 2 part isn't that big of a deal as far as headspace is concerned.
DO NOT JUST CHAMBER A ROUND AND HOPE. That tells you exactly nothing about headspace and is unsafe.
 
TheTooner said:
Mine was about $200 from S.I.R. and I, too, thought that was a relatively high price, but one with full wood was what I wanted and I didn't know when and where to expect to find another. So the fact that its market value went up quite a bit quite quickly is somewhat gratifying, but moot because it's also my "never sell" gun (partly because I got my first deer with it.)
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Tooner when were S.I.R selling these Mk2's?? Mid 90's?? What condition were they listed in and did the bayonet and scabbard come with??
 
I came back to Canada in 1999. I think I got that rifle a couple years later. I don't remember the advertised condition, but mine had seen very little use before it was sold surplus. (I probably checked the Irish Contract serial number group at some time but I don't remember if mine falls in there.) It did include the bayonet and scabbard.
 
Someone has probably already said so, but I didn't read all the comments: you need a bolt with the full round knob and no hole in it. That is what the rifle had originally.

The lugs have to be lapped in before firing, or at least checked for even contact with layout blue.
 
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