Cost of re-barreling an AR-15 carbine. Savings of bi-metal ammo?

CanuckShooter

CanuckShooter

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After checking out the luckygunner AR torture test, I'm trying to work out the math to see how much of a savings using bi-metal ammo would offer over copper jacketed, and was wondering if the AR gurus could offer some insight on re-barreling costs (since apparently the bi-metal will wear out the bore much faster). I've googled AR-15 barrel prices here in Canada, but I have no idea which are decent and which ones might be poor quality. I'm not looking for anything match grade, just a standard quality, chrome lined 16" barrel that would be compatible with a S&W M&P15. Any suggestions?

For tools, I'd have to buy a receiver clamp, and armourer's wrench, but what about other parts that need to be replaced with the barrel. Replacing the gas tube is standard with a re-barrel, isn't it? Maybe an extractor since it's steel cased ammo. Any other parts? I've read that the A2 front sight base can be a major pain to get off. Does it get mangled, or do most people just end up ditching it in favour of a low profile gas black for simplicity?

I'm kind of hoping after all is said and done, that the savings of bi-metal ammo, factoring in a re-barrel, isn't that substantial. The price difference is almost exactly $100 per 1000rds. I'd welcome the peace of mind of using only purdy brass, copper jacketed Federal AE 223 through the gun, and not having to do a re-barrel.

Any advice would be appreciated. Hoping to decide asap so I can get in on Tenda's ammo sale before it ends on the 11th :cool:

Thanks!
 
Typical life of a barrel with a military issue rifle is about 30,000 rounds and that is with a select fire rifle dumping 30 rounds at a time, the life of a neutered Canadian sporting rifle shooting 5 round at time the service life of the barrel will be considerably higher. at $100 per 1000 rds even with a service life of 30,000 rds you are looking at a saving of $3000. at that point why bother with changing the barrel just throw the rifle out and another one. :d
 
Yeah, the math is in favour of shooting the cheap stuff, in a very big way. A serviceable chrome lined barrel runs around $250, the tools - including torque wrench, can be had for less than $400. By the time you've saved enough to do the first barrel change, the existing barrel won't be half way close to dying. After that, you're just buying barrels and $20 dollar associated bits. As far as the extractor goes, the metal cases aren't tough enough to do any damage - when a steel case sticks (which they can do - easily), the extractor will just rip through it, no harm no foul.
 
30k rounds? Hmmm... The barrels in this torture test wore out in under 10k, and the extractors used with steel cases were pretty gnarly vs those used with brass.

What do you guys make of this?

ww w.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
 
Heat kills barrels. The Lucky Gunner testing incorporated high volume rates of fire using full capacity 30 round magazines. The bbls got really hot. Canadian shooters limited to 5-10 round magazines aren't going to have the same worries.
 
It's very interesting, but even in the US the economic advantage goes with the steel case.If you go with the idea that a barrel is dead at 6000 rounds, and you save $100/case then you spend $650 for the first change, then $400 (being generous) for each subsequent barrel, you're well over $150 ahead from the second barrel, $200 for each subsequent barrel. In 30K rounds, you've saved $750, plus the cost of a new barrel (you'll need one at 30K with brass)
 
If you want to be good at shooting ( an AR ) the strategy is to buy a "decent enough" barrel and shoot a lot of cheap ammo. Rebuild your AR constantly.

That is why you want to stick with an AR that has a barrel nut and hand guard system that you can constantly rebuild on your own.

If you shoot 1000 rounds a month, pretty much you need to rebuild your gun every year and a half or so. You can do the math, if you save 50 dollars a case, that is more saving than a barrel and a new bolt per rebuild
 
Exactly how much ammunition do you expect to fire a year? Year after year? What sort of shooting do you anticipate doing?
If it is going to be all short range, standing on your hind legs, the standard of accuracy is pretty generous. If you plan on being competitive in formal service rifle competition back to 500m, a much higher standard of accuracy is required. But if that is your game, you won't be shooting the cheapest ammunition you can get.
I replaced my competition barrel when groups opened to two and a half minutes with quality ammunition. Took thousands of rounds of ammunition with match grade bullets to do that. Throat showed erosion to the naked eye. If I were shooting CQB or 3-gun, that barrel would still be useful.
If you are shooting an AR a lot, there are parts which should be replaced on an annual basis. Wear is to be expected. If you want to learn a lot about ARs from a professionally trained AR armourer, how they work, and what is needed to maintain them, and have your rifle checked with the proper gauges, the one day clinic offered annually at MilCun would be worth your while. Too late for this year, next one will be the spring of 2018.
Swapping an A2 sight base that was taper pinned on one barrel onto a different barrel could get interesting. Easier to start with a new front sight base and gas tube at the same time. If the barrel is shot out, the gas tube will most likely be due for replacement as well.
 
On a side note, when cleaning the AR you don't do anything for the gas tube do you? We should avoid spraying anything into it? I recall reading this somewhere long before I bought one.
 
Zen_Seeker said:
On a side note, when cleaning the AR you don't do anything for the gas tube do you? We should avoid spraying anything into it? I recall reading this somewhere long before I bought one.
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Cleaning the gas tube is pointless, all things considered. It's essentially self cleaning. There will always be a bit of carbon residue and shmoo in there, but each blast of pressure effectively clears it.
 
hbean said:
Typical life of a barrel with a military issue rifle is about 30,000 rounds and that is with a select fire rifle dumping 30 rounds at a time, the life of a neutered Canadian sporting rifle shooting 5 round at time the service life of the barrel will be considerably higher. at $100 per 1000 rds even with a service life of 30,000 rds you are looking at a saving of $3000. at that point why bother with changing the barrel just throw the rifle out and another one. :d
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Hell no. Colt Canada barrels, which are extremely high-quality cold-hammer forged barrels with thick chroming that have extreme durability, is rated for around 20,000 rounds of normal military use. US military M4 barrels are rated to around 8,000 rounds, if I remember correctly. It all depends on how you use your rifle like you said. Semi-auto shooting from time to time won't wear out the barrel as fast.
 
FWIW our range rifles generally last just under 20k rounds and at that point the bullets have started keyholing. We have run some Colt Canada barrels and they last longer, generally getting to about 30k rounds. We use 5.56mm ammo, usually Federal, but also PMC and recently S&B.
 
Shooting Centre said:
FWIW our range rifles generally last just under 20k rounds and at that point the bullets have started keyholing. We have run some Colt Canada barrels and they last longer, generally getting to about 30k rounds. We use 5.56mm ammo, usually Federal, but also PMC and recently S&B.
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I know it's a long shot, and probably a logistical pain in the ass, but have you guys ever considered running strictly cheap steel case ammo on a freshly rebarreled range rifle? I'd love to see some real data on a Canadian "realistic" life expectancy test. As others have said, most tests come from the US where it's high rate of fire, going through the entire projected ammo count that day, and not a "life of the typical Canadian range gun".
 
FoxAlpha said:
I know it's a long shot, and probably a logistical pain in the ass, but have you guys ever considered running strictly cheap steel case ammo on a freshly rebarreled range rifle? I'd love to see some real data on a Canadian "realistic" life expectancy test. As others have said, most tests come from the US where it's high rate of fire, going through the entire projected ammo count that day, and not a "life of the typical Canadian range gun".
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We have yet to find any bimetal jacketted 5.56mm ammo that runs well in the range guns. Cheaper ammo is fine but it has to function.
 
I kind of prefer to have some ammunition that is a bit crappy, for training - I wouldn't shoot it for anything that counts, but unreliable ammo (misfires, misfeeds) is a bit of a plus for training. If you want to build the skills necessary for IA's having real ammo that's a crap shoot can be very instructional. Sort of ironic and counter intuitive, but some of the best skill development ammo available in 9mm is Barnaul, with granite primers, it's impossible to anticipate if you're going to get bang or a click.

Range rentals are a completely different scenario, of course.
 
enefgee said:
Sort of ironic and counter intuitive, but some of the best skill development ammo available in 9mm is Barnaul, with granite primers, it's impossible to anticipate if you're going to get bang or a click.
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I've only been running Barnaul for the last 5 - 7 years, and not in super large amounts. I'd say about 4K 9mm, 10K .223 and 5K .308. (85% FMJ the rest HP or SP.) Out of all that I don't think I've ever had a dud. Accuracy isn't great but I don't buy it for that. What issues have you had? Not looking to argue just want to watch for a bad batch.

Now with 1994-1997 China surplus, brass/copper 5.56, I have had duds and hard primers...more than I'd like but not enough to be an issue. MVP doesn't like the China surplus much but if it fails to fire the Benelli MR1 eats it just fine.

TulAmmo has also been fine in all my firearms, but again accuracy isn't all that great.
 
Wow, you guys shoot a lot. I'm jealous. I'm not a competitor, or action shooter. I'm just a recreational plinker who might shoot 10,000 rounds of 223 in my entire lifetime, probably less. Not because I don't want to, but just due to only having one day off a week (often none), distance to the range, etc. I'm looking at one centerfire rifle session per month during the nicer weather if I try, and a great deal less in the winter, if I even get out. The other range I belong to which I get out to more often is much closer, and has an indoor range but is only handgun and rimfire rifle (which make up the bulk of my shooting).

Sorry, I guess I should have mentioned this in my original post. Taking this into consideration, I would only ever realistically see one re-barrel were I to use bi-metal ammo. Would your recommendations change based on this information? Unless I'm overlooking something, the math in my situation seems to favor bi-metal less. Say I only ever shoot 5k-8k. That's $500-$800, minus the cost of one rebarrel ($250 for barrel, plus tools, gas tube, maybe a low profile gas block, flip up front sight, etc).

Thanks for all of the informative replies so far.
 
Zen_Seeker said:
I've only been running Barnaul for the last 5 - 7 years, and not in super large amounts. I'd say about 4K 9mm, 10K .223 and 5K .308. (85% FMJ the rest HP or SP.) Out of all that I don't think I've ever had a dud. Accuracy isn't great but I don't buy it for that. What issues have you had? Not looking to argue just want to watch for a bad batch.

Now with 1994-1997 China surplus, brass/copper 5.56, I have had duds and hard primers...more than I'd like but not enough to be an issue. MVP doesn't like the China surplus much but if it fails to fire the Benelli MR1 eats it just fine.

TulAmmo has also been fine in all my firearms, but again accuracy isn't all that great.
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The Barnaul stuff that I bought (a ton of) a year or so ago was a crap shoot, even in a brand new Glock. Some went bang, some went click - actually pretty awesome training ammo, since it's impossible to do a reasonable job of ball and dummy drills when you practising solo. I've never had a problem with accuracy (when it did go bang). I know Clobbersaurus had the same issue - and used it the same way I did.
 
i have a mk12 match AR thats my competition and train rifle, it sees a lot of round count, so I have a spare barrel for it. match chambers and match barrels burn through faster than regular barrels, but I think by the time im done my second barrell ill be approaching the end of my training and comp days.

My 3 colt canada barrelled ARs will never see the end of life count.
 
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