Counting Their Marks - Kill Records on Rifles

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello Everyone,

I have been looking at my guns, and have noticed one of them which has seen military service (Namely my 1898 Martini-Enfield). I recently did a very close inspection of it, all the parts and wood, and noticed on the hand grip, along the left side of the wood, are a series of same-spaced diagonal knife cuts. Counting from left to right they read:

/ / / / / / / / / X / (A count of 11)

This rifle has it's original stock disk and was issued in 1899, during the time of the Second Boer War to the 3rd Lanarkshire Rifle Volunteers.

My question is, could this be a kill count by the soldier who once possessed this rifle, who was keeping track? I will have a picture of it later, but the description is true. The cuts are very small, and intentionally cut as there are no gashes or other indications that this was done by any other means than man made.

Discussion is absolutely welcome, and I would encourage anyone else to come out with pictures or descriptions of their "War Marked" rifles.
 
Buy the Rifle, not the Story.

Could be Bubba and Boredom with a Knife, could be a Scoreboard for Gophers or Deer being hunted, could be Bottles of Beer to Drink around the campfire...
 
Hey Drach not to steal your post but how did you get the issue hx from your gun???

I also have a Martini Enfield that has some marks and initials on the stock i've assumed the same, kills and the soldier it was issued to initials. But Im not sure of the hx of my gun it was given to my father who then gave it to me.
 
Drachenblut said:
Hello Everyone,

I have been looking at my guns, and have noticed one of them which has seen military service (Namely my 1898 Martini-Enfield). I recently did a very close inspection of it, all the parts and wood, and noticed on the hand grip, along the left side of the wood, are a series of same-spaced diagonal knife cuts. Counting from left to right they read:

/ / / / / / / / / X / (A count of 11)
snip
Discussion is absolutely welcome, and I would encourage anyone else to come out with pictures or descriptions of their "War Marked" rifles.
Click to expand...

Marks like that could have been added at any time in the rifles life.
And the individual could have been keeping track of something other than kills.
Any individual who was in the British Military in during the Boer war would have caught supreme flak for carving on the stock of their issue rifle. It was after all the property of the Queen and to be taken care of. A dirty bore or rust was a sin that could result in the stockade. Carving up the Queens rifle would have been regarded as much worse.
 
Agreed, they could have been, but the marks are very small and I think they would have been done, besides, it was a Scottish regiment of Volunteers. The marks look like they would be hidden, the idea being that when gripped, the hand totally covers them, and without a real close look it's not visible. I'll show you the picture later.
 
11 kills seems awfully high for a regular-type soldier. When I was mere trooper we were told that most soldiers don't even fire their rifles in combat, let alone fire and make a kill. If it isn't a sniper rifle I'd be very skeptical of a claim of 11 kills.
 
Interesting, but the marks really could be anything, as many have stated they could have even been added after the rifle left the military. How old do the marks look? I have seen quite a few Enfield with "kill marks" that looked very new and as if they were done 10 minutes before the show to make a few extra bucks :jerkit: There is a chance they were carved by someone in the military at one point in time, perhaps being kills (although VERY high), time in/time left etc.. however as others have stated could the work of a bored kid many years after, who knows. Id sure like to see the rifle though!
 
British Army in SA was armed with magazine rifles. Combat use of the ME and MM appears to have been by Cape and Natal forces.
Cannot find any record of Lanarkshire Vol in SA.
 
rattus said:
11 kills seems awfully high for a regular-type soldier. When I was mere trooper we were told that most soldiers don't even fire their rifles in combat, let alone fire and make a kill. If it isn't a sniper rifle I'd be very skeptical of a claim of 11 kills.
Click to expand...

I'm sure surviving one Zulu charge could make up for that number...

As 10x mentioned I doubt the British Commanders of that era took kindly to troops marking up their rifles with kill markers, but then again who knows, I sure wasn't there. :D
 
Mmm it seems to me if soldiers never fired thier rifles, they wouldn't technically die from being shot. But yes, I agree, the marks could be anything and they are very old, not fresh at all.
 
If I was a soldier during any war, I personally would be reluctant to mark any kills on my rifle. If I was ever captured, I think there would be a price to pay.
Having said this, I am certain it did happen. For instance, in the book "Biggest Brother" by Richard Winters of Band of Brothers fame, he clearly admits to placing 7 hash marks on his M1 rifle. One for each confirmed kill.
 
Deer or moose more then likely. Old timers around here would do that on their old surplus LE's, mausers etc.
Gave them something to talk about at the camp.
 
Perhaps it is days, weeks, or months of deployment? I know my grandfather mentioned that it was difficult to keep track of time in the field, and they would mark off time in different ways as a kind of calendar.
 
Kill mark on rifle bad juju.
I have several rifles that "have pitting because of blood from the hands of the ______soldier that was hold the line against_______got it". Most of these rifles that we are so fond of spent the last 60+ years in the hands of people that just did not give a rip about the tool. As long as it put meat in the deep freeze that is all they cared about.
Here is a personal example. The rifle that dad shot all our beef with and any deer that we ate, was a PCMR 30-30 that grandpa had (as the story goes) bought for $5 at the end of his service. I grew up with this rifle. I never cleaned, or wiped it down. I did wipe oil on it once because some one said I should though. It was only later when I stared to collect that I got pains when I look at her. The rifle is all original with a good bore, but the wood is cracked and the exterior is badlly pitted on one side.
Soon I will be able to do some repairs and give her a good going over, not to much though I don't want to bubba my grandpa's rifle.;)RF
 
Drachenblut said:
Mmm it seems to me if soldiers never fired thier rifles, they wouldn't technically die from being shot. But yes, I agree, the marks could be anything and they are very old, not fresh at all.
Click to expand...

True. But most soldiers die from something other than being shot, if being shot by an opposing rifleman is what you mean. The big killers are machine guns & artillery.
 
I never saw it but I had a friend whos uncle was a big gun collector in the Phillipines. He had a BAR that had supposedly been marked with killed germans and later killed japanese. My friend swore it was true as he had seen it. I have no idea if it was authentic or not.
 
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