CSA VZ58 and CZ-858 are not the same

[serg777]

I recently had a lot of hassle with some "BC tactical" made parts. If you have VZ58 Sporter - welcome to my club and prepare for troubles. Here is the story.

I have recently ordered Tactical Bolt and Mag release kit from Wolverine Supplies for my CSA vz 58 Sporter rifle, which I bought brand new from local gun store in Vancouver,BC earlier this year. Promptly received those parts from Wolverine and installed them - the rifle was functioning fine initially. However, after about 200 rounds the bolt was no longer staying opened after last round fired. I found the bolt catch tip was severely worn as seen on the picture compared with original part: the tip became grounded out at the angle, so it could no longer hold the bolt, as the bolt simply was pushing it down on the way back. Probably, the material it's made off is too soft.

I've let my gunsmith have a look, and it appears the root cause was indeed in tactical mag release of the same kit, as it does not hold mag all the way into the receiver. That makes the mag rear end playing up and down for about 1-2mm when inserted into receiver. The visual comparison of original and tactical mag releases snapped onto same pin shows that tactical mag release is slightly shorter and hence out of specs. That well explains mag wiggling effect.

Now, as per gunsmith, the mechanism of failure was this: the mag was not holding tightly in the receiver, hence the mag follower was unable to push bolt release pin all the way up after last round (it appeared it was just half way out), hence there was less surface of bolt catch tip to engage with the bolt, so the bolt catch tip was under more stress and worn quickly due to lack of hardening.


Basically both parts were out of specs and combination of both has caused a failure. Again: mine is the ordinary model of Vz 58, which currently sells in many Canadian gun stores.


Bottom line: I have installed back original parts and now the rifle works fine, no more mag wiggling, bolt holds opened - which is another proof of inferior tactical parts. After all the hassle, I ended up with two useless parts laying around, for which I paid more than $100.


Called back Wolverine for refund or exchange.

To be continued...

 

[Sevensixtwo]

I feel like this could happen to a cz858 as well... Not arguing that they are the same... But they aren't that different...

 

[serg777]

Ok, friends. I see a lot of visits to this thread, so the story continues further.

Wolverine guys were very polite and willing to resolve the issue. They have directed me to BC Tactical, which has agreed for replacement. The communication with Wolverine as well as BC Tactical was a bit sluggish, but anyways, I have sent them back bad parts and eventually received the replacement. For the fun part: BC Tactical appeared within 5 minutes driving from my home (their address appears to be is a private house in nice and quiet neighborhood - I know that area as I live close by).

Ok, installed replacement mag release and hated to believe: it is still out specs. No kidding, but now it is in the opposite way - I had to apply excessive force to insert the mag into the rifle, as the mag release did not swing all the way out to let the mag in. And there was near impossible to remove the mag with hand's force unless tapping on the mag to knock it out.

On the attached photos it is very obvious the BC Tactical mag release does not swing as far as original does, so this is how it prevents the mag to release freely. I removed the part and examined it (see photos). As shown on the pics, the BC Tactical part has more "meat" on it, as its thickness is 7,9 mm, while the original part is 7,5 mm. This is what prevents it to be pushed all the way forward. Due to leveraging effect, 0.4mm difference transfers into ~ extra 1mm at the top of mag release which engages with the mag.

Secondly, the shaping of the top of BC tactical release obviously does not match its original counterpart. This can explain, that it still makes mag wiggling when it was forcibly inserted into rifle (though less wiggling than previous part).

Hope pictures well explain the problem (sorry some typo in there - did not want to spent time fixing it).

I did not even try bolt release, once I found this issue with mag release, so cannot tell how good was it.

I was so frustrated, as I was really looking forward to see those parts in my rifle.

Oh well, sent email to BC Tactical explaining the issue and attaching same picture as posted here.

To be continued...

 

[Sevensixtwo]

Bummer dude, my bc tactical mag release worked fine on my vz but I realized the release is made for the weird cz858 trigger guard and since vz's don't have this affliction I too returned to stock mag release. Now looking for a zahal or a dlask... Or a sort of combination of the two. An ambi mag release with slap chop capabilities that works with the bc tactical bolt catch... Add some ambi safety... Ho buddy.

 

[Canadiankeeper]

Simple is strong...

Don't need all that tacticool crap to be proficient with your rifle. Sorry about you financial loss, very good and informative thread tho !!

Change the covers, or stock. I try not to mess with the original function of the parts.

 

[jparent]

From the wolverine web site:

Fits CZ858, to fit VZ58, modification may be required.

I purchased the same parts from Wolverine. It did require some fitting on my VZ. I did the work myself (very minor work with fine 1500x sandpaper). I tested fit and function on all my mags before shooting.

I have had zero problems since installation.

Wolverine went above and beyond, as usual.

 

[serg777]

Ok, friends, many of you already figured out that those parts are indeed for CZ, not CSA VZ.

So, when second set did not fit, I again called BC Tactical explaining the problem and the guy on the phone flat out saying exactly that. That left me wondering why he did not tell me that very first time, when I was explaining the problem and mentioned few times in my e-mails, that I have CSA version. Yes, he suggested doing some filing to make the parts fit, but said they are made precisely for CZ. Again, that left me wondering if they are precisely made, why two given sets are different in between, since the second one did not even allow the mag to be inserted. I guess they require to be custom fitted anyways no matter what model is, and that is how it supposed to be for every gun. I have some mechanical background, yet my hobby is fixing cars. So I thought, when I buy some replacement part it must fit out of the box, just like engine part or so. Anyways, lesson learned.

The parts have been sent back to Wolverine, refund was made without problems (thanks, Wolverine). Since then they have changed description on their web-site for those parts. Some of you rightfully pointed out that Wolverine clearly mentioned about possibility of required modification for VZ. Though, when I was buying those parts - it was not. I knew Wolverine will address this and will change their web site, so just in case I quickly made a screenshot of their old web page right after I have explained them the root problem and asked for refund:

Remarkably, BC Tactical upto now still advertises those parts fitting both CZ and VZ.

 

[twyeh]

You have to consider this, the Vz.58 series were produced by various Czech/Slovak armouries throughout all these years. Spec variance is to be noted.
The CSA commercial versions are built different from the original military contracts, brand new to boot.

 

[Sevensixtwo]

A truly noble crusade . I give you a slow round of applause. . . . Victory on the Internet Day

 

[XTGUN]

Also let it be noted the mags are not interchangeable 100%. KCI mags do not run reliably in CSA rifles. The tac bolt release I got from BC Tactical was out of specs and required some sanding to fit. Did not bother with the mag release because it would have been too much effort for too little profit. The ideally mag release would be a ambi one so it could be operate with a simple push of the trigger finger. It is understandable though, and I am not upset about it. It's just worth noting, and considering these things before dropping significant amounts of money for mods online.

 

[serg777]

XTGUN,

Yes, I also had troubles with KCI mags sold by Wolverine. When trying to send cartridge into the chamber, the bullet point was getting stack against receiver below the barrel and never got inside. I decided not to create a hype as it was the case with BC Tactical parts. The fix was to bend out mag lips with pliers, so the upper round in the mag appears leveled with the chamber and it goes straight inside. It still worth it, considering the $20 price of the new mag. Though, it is metal, not aluminum, yet it required painting to match the black finish of the rifle. Anyways, I had few hundred rounds since then with no issues. No complains to Wolverine, as their web sites does not mention VZ as supported model for those mags. No confusion. I suggest everybody to pay attention which models the given part is advertised for. Unfortunately, often sellers on their own do not realize it, when put "CZ/VZ" models assuming they are the same.

Hope my lessons are worth reading this thread.

 

[ShooterSteveYYC]

From the wolverine web site:

Fits CZ858, to fit VZ58, modification may be required.

I purchased the same parts from Wolverine. It did require some fitting on my VZ. I did the work myself (very minor work with fine 1500x sandpaper). I tested fit and function on all my mags before shooting.

I have had zero problems since installation.

Wolverine went above and beyond, as usual.

X2 on this ^

Mine took some MINOR sanding and final fitment on my VZ58 and has worked flawlessly since.
When replacing any part with aftermarket parts I always test fit and file/sand to fit before use.

 

[serg777]

Good to know someone was lucky to fit it. Probably your rifles are of different manufacturer or batch. Assuming in no way those custom parts would fit out-of-the-box, it is always good to have a bit more "meat" on them to have them sanded out. Though, in my case the mag was playing inside the receiver too much from get-go, and in that unfortunate situation I supposed to weld on more material and then re-machine it to fit. May be I'm spoiled, but too much hassle for the thingy, which I already paid $100 for. These rifles indeed are good for developing your engineering skills and hand crafting - just like Soviet cars and every other product made by commies back then. Oh well I was young but still remember those good old days over there.