CT Lasergrips in Open division?

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island

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Hi All:

Theoretical rules question for the more experienced IPSC people if I may:

Is there something in the rules that would prevent a CT Lasergrip (with the laser on) being used in Open division? I have scoured the rulebook, but may have missed something.

Whether it's a good idea or not being a seperate question, of course :)

Much appreciated.
 
I haven't seen anything in the rules but speaking unofficially with my RO hat on if you have your finger in the trigger guard you have to be clearly aiming at a target. if you fire while your gun is not obviously pointed at a target you're looking at a match DQ which you would then have to protest by claiming you were aiming using the laser dot. how this would go at arbitration I have no idea. I'm surprised it hasn't been addrssed in the rules.
 
There's nothing in the rules that would prevent it. That's why they call it Open; anything goes. So long as you don't mount it on your gun half way through a match....

But I have to ask....why would you?
 
why would you?
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Well, like I said, seperate question, one I'm not sure I have a good answer for. I guess because I have one on my gun and don't have a red dot on it (currently), so just wanted to know what my options were, if any.
 
Musky Hunter said:
CT Lasergrips activation is not with the trigger finger.
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Ryan mauybe i wasn't clear I wasn't addressing the laser activation method but rather that with a laser one can acquire and fire at targets from waist level etc or the hip or any other position without actually having to use the main sights. This can makes it very difficult for the RO who is behind & to the side of the competitor to see if its an AD or an aimed shot using the dot.
 
ah...didn;t think of it that way... Good thinking.
JohnC said:
Ryan mauybe i wasn't clear I wasn't addressing the laser activation method but rather that with a laser one can acquire and fire at targets from waist level etc or the hip or any other position without actually having to use the main sights. This can makes it very difficult for the RO who is behind & to the side of the competitor to see if its an AD or an aimed shot using the dot.
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JohnC said:
Ryan mauybe i wasn't clear I wasn't addressing the laser activation method but rather that with a laser one can acquire and fire at targets from waist level etc or the hip or any other position without actually having to use the main sights. This can makes it very difficult for the RO who is behind & to the side of the competitor to see if its an AD or an aimed shot using the dot.
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So tell me John, where in the rule book does it say that you're required to use the sights to engage a target?
 
The R.O should be watching the gun, not the target...or the dot on the target. If he/she is watching the gun, it will not matter if it is fired from waist level or ground level (prone for instance). They should be able to tell if it was fired in a safe direction or not by observing the angle of the muzzle relative to the berm.
 
relliott said:
Legal and.........pointless.
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Based on experience?

I have tried laser sighting on an AR-15, and it was quite valueless, but I wonder if it was more because of the longer range? It's actually quite difficult to "hold on" with the laser, from the hip. It's easier with the rifle mounted at the shoulder, but still far more difficult than any of the holographic sights.
 
relliott said:
The R.O should be watching the gun, not the target...or the dot on the target. If he/she is watching the gun, it will not matter if it is fired from waist level or ground level (prone for instance). They should be able to tell if it was fired in a safe direction or not by observing the angle of the muzzle relative to the berm.
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i agree you always watch the gun but i'm thinking of competitor movement where the finger has to be outside the trigger guard even with the gun in a safe direction unless targets are being engaged - if someone is using a laser it can be hard at times to see whether the competitor moving with his finger inside the trigger guard is aiming using the laser dot -as opposed to the case of open or optical sights where its obvious that he/she is aiming or not, even if its only pointing the gun in the direction the target.
 
Laser

nairbg said:
Based on experience?

I have tried laser sighting on an AR-15, and it was quite valueless, but I wonder if it was more because of the longer range? It's actually quite difficult to "hold on" with the laser, from the hip. It's easier with the rifle mounted at the shoulder, but still far more difficult than any of the holographic sights.
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Well imagine an optical sight with the dot projected on the lens. As your gun wobbles your perception of the dot movement is relatively minor. Now imagine projecting that dot to say, 25 meters, and still pivoting its movement from the gun end. Small changes at the gun are HUGE changes at the dot, but you are trying to watch the dot while controling the gun. The dot whips all over thee place and never seems to settle anywhere long enough to make a shot and call it. Now compound the problem with movement. To me, it's kind of like trying to tie your shoes using a pair of salad tongs. You may be able to do it, but it will be excrutiatingly slow.

And yes, I've tried laser sighted guns, and always found them to be impractical for handgun use.
 
in bright daylight could you even see the laser on the target? I thought these would primarily designed for low light or night shooting?
 
Most of the time, with an open gun, you are tracking the dot, even when you are transitioning between targets. By keeping the dot in your field of view all of the time, your target acquisition and subsequent shots are that much faster.

With the laser projected onto whatever it's pointed at, you lose it as you transition between targets, and have to reacquire it. That fraction of a second is going to be a significant loss in time over a course of fire.

What you gain by being able to shoot from an "unmounted" (ie gun low) stance is lost because it is not a stable firing position allowing rapid followup shots and "point shooting" (which is what most of us do, pointing with our entire arm/forearm/wrists/hands/pistol) to get onto the next target faster.
 
Had a cheap grip mounted integrated laser on the side of a ruger 22 pistol mark 2. Found exactly what both Chris and Rob to say to be true. Given that any IPSC would have considerable more recoil I can not see the point. Was fun as a toy but would useless in our game. Get real scope and be done with it. Never used it outdoors but even on our small range it was hard to see except on the PT's.
 
nairbg said:
Based on experience?
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All of the above - plus if it was an advantage, you'd have seen lasers on Leatham's, Jarret's, Grauffel's, Burkett's, etc. guns a long time ago. Since it's how they make a living; those guys try everything - long before it pops into our mere mortal heads.
 
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