cut rifling barrels and velocity

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I have a 25" cut rifled barrel on a 270ai that consistently runs quite a bit slower than i was expecting when having the gun built. The only other cut rifled barrel i have first hand experience with is a hunting partner of mine that is experiencing the same thing on a 338-06 he had built. I'm just wondering if this is standard for cut barrels to run quite a bit slower than what published load data from a number of sources might indicate. In both cases the barrels on our rifles are 1" longer than published test barrels, and the published data shows velocities 200-250 fps faster than our rifles are running.

Thx
 
Lots of published book data was never over a chronograph... all done by calculations... and how accurate is your chronograph?
 
I have a 25" cut rifled barrel on a 270ai that consistently runs quite a bit slower than i was expecting when having the gun built. The only other cut rifled barrel i have first hand experience with is a hunting partner of mine that is experiencing the same thing on a 338-06 he had built. I'm just wondering if this is standard for cut barrels to run quite a bit slower than what published load data from a number of sources might indicate. In both cases the barrels on our rifles are 1" longer than published test barrels, and the published data shows velocities 200-250 fps faster than our rifles are running.

I've never seen that concern expressed before. Cut rifled barrels are the preferred choice of many long distance shooters that are scratching for every last bit of velocity. What is your specific load details and what velocity are you getting?
 
Although I have never done an actual test of this, I noticed years back when I was barreling a lot of different rifles that it seemed to me that cut rifled barrels were significantly slower than buttoned barrels and the fastest by far were the hammer forged barrels by Remington, Winchester and Sako. Each adding about 100 fps to the former. So given my limited observations I would say that for a cut barrel to be 200 fps slower than a HF barrel would be about right. I discussed this at length with Bevan King and he agreed with my observation. He also told me that a buttoned barrel must be installed so the bullet travels in the same direction as the button was run through or velocity and accuracy suffered, and he would know.
It has to do with the internal finish of the barrel, the roughest being cut and the smoothest being HF. The good news is your barrel will smooth up as you shoot it and you can adjust your loads to get more velocity. The first major improvement happens between 100-200 rounds, then clean it good and remove any copper fouling and rework your loads you SHOULD be able to gain some velocity and then again after 500 rounds, the same procedure.
You can also accelerate this by hand lapping your barrels, but this is not something I have ever done so I will leave this process description to someone who knows the correct procedure, as I do not. I do know you can f**k up a brand new barrel if you don't know the correct way to go about it.
The different barrel "break in" procedures you will encounter on here from time to time are left over from the days when all barrels were cut rifled, and when applied to a cut rifled barrel, have some merit. They usually only involve a procedure with the first 10 or 20 rounds which no doubt does help some, but the more rounds down the tube the better it smoothes out and removing the copper fouling allows for this smoothing to happen faster.
 
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I don't think there is any truth to cut rifled barrel being slower and certainly not 200 plus fps, we run 308's at over 3030 fps with 155's and 185's at 2825 fps in 28-30" barrels that are cut.
There is a smith I know that installs a lot of barrels and told me they were running a300 wsm barrel over 3250 with 180's , if it isn't making speed you put more powder imo.

It is possible that you might have a really loose barrel though that was cut oversize and maybe not making enough pressure but a cut barrel the same size as a button should go the same speed
 
Is there an easy way to tell which way the button was pushed through?

Consider that depending on the manufacturer the button could be pushed or pulled through the barrel, although I think pulling is more common. Also consider that after button rifling or cut rifling a quality barrel will be lapped. The lapping process involves hundreds of alternating push and pull strokes. If the barrel is air gauged to determine diameter variation along the length of the barrel, the tight end is typically selected to be the muzzle.


The Making of a Rifled Barrel - Geoffery Kolbe
 
Run a soft lead slug through the bore and measure the bore dimensions from it. A tight and or rough finished bore will generally give you higher velocities than a slightly larger or very smooth finished bore because of the increased pressure that builds up from having to force the bullet down the bore.

Also check the diameter of the bullets you are using in it too, I had a batch of cheap bulk .270 bullets that I found were slightly undersized and gave me slightly less velocity and accuracy than correct sized bullets.
 
Dennis your answer is outstanding........:d:d

Ron AKA.......again you know nothing about the subject and are just spewing trash........button rifled barrels are not necessarily lapped and in fact most are not.........I have made many, never lapped a one. I'd also like to see you tell Ron Smith that his cut rifled barrels should be lapped.........I'd take photos of that encounter. I can also tell you for a fact that P.O. Ackley never lapped a single barrel he ever made and firmly did not believe in it.
You also don't have a clue about button rifling whether pulled or pushed.....both methods are equally acceptable and the equipment I used pushed the button. Pushing has several advantages, like you don't pull the rod off the button 1/2 way down the barrel and ruin both barrel and button as happens when pulling. You are also wrong about using the tighter end as the muzzle, the bullet must travel down the barrel the same direction as the button went.........period !! And when properly done there is no tighter end, the barrel will mike exactly the same all the way through........you know absolutely nothing about making barrels do you? It's quite obvious from your post.......
 
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Hmmmm maybe a tad harsh on Rons post considering some of the best button rifled barrels are also hand lapped and air gauged (Shilen and hart come to mind). Slugging and selecting the tightest place in the bore is common in rimfire where your using lead projectiles which have no "rebound" unlike copper.
More than one way to skin a cat....or make a rifle barrel.
Can't comment on the fps difference between manufacturers but I suspect the only way to truly test this would be to take a large enough sample size of each rifling process to make a sound statistical judgement. The variables between barrels from the same manufacturer are to great for most to comment with an absolute answer on the subject.
 
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