Cycling issues w/ new 870/590s. Why?

EL34/6L6

EL34/6L6

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Why am I reading about this so often? Is it a quality control issue?

Yet I own two budget 12g pumps that eat all shell types/brands whether brass, aluminum or steel, and they all cycle and eject flawlessly.

I'm looking at adding either an 870 Express or 590A1 to my shotgun stable but I seem to have more reservations than I ever did when buying my Turkish tactical pumps. (????)

Is this just a small hiccup with these legendary models?
 
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I have yet to come across a late model 870 or 590A1 with cycling issues. However, with QC these days you never know.
Rack your new SG a couple of hundred times, fire a bunch of rounds and everything will smooth right out. Some finishes will take more to "break-in".
The plus side about 870s and Mossbergs is they have parts available (for replacement) therefore can be kept running for many years.

IMO the 590A1 is one of the best SG's for the money (right now).
 
Quality control and getting as many cheaply made guns into the market as fast as possible.

I find the statement "its a good gun for the money" fairly hilarious, as these guns are often pieces of junk. If thats a good gun, I'd love to see what bad gun for that money is.
 
EL34/6L6 said:
Why am I reading about this so often? Is it a quality control issue?
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Yes, and no: There are far, far more of these models than anything else. Every product run has a certain rate of issues straight out of the factory, and all things being equal, more products in the hands of users means that more problems will be observed.

There is a gazillion 870s and 500/590s out there, so even if there were a low rate of problems with these models, there would be a fairly large number of problems.

However, all things are not equal: Actual rate of problems occurring is a different matter, and that's what most people probably care about. However, you'll probably never hear reliable data on the subject. Manufacturers are simply not going to publish meaningful warranty service rates; It's generally more useful for them to manipulate an "impression" of reliability using sometimes sneaky methods (celebrity endorsement, comparing reliability of "tweaked" models, etc). Marketing rules, and I don't blame them for it.

You'll often hear scuttlebutt around gunshops, but due to the typical disconnect between counter staff and gunsmiths, I personally don't usually give those observations much credence: Counter staff don't often know what the service issues really are, and smiths don't often know how many of a particular model are being sold. Smiths, however, can make very useful comments on the mechanical merits of differing designs.
 
EL34/6L6 said:
Why am I reading about this so often? Is it a quality control issue?

Yet I own two budget 12g pumps that eat all shell types/brands whether brass, aluminum or steel, and they all cycle and eject flawlessly.

I'm looking at adding either an 870 Express or 590A1 to my shotgun stable but I seem to have more reservations than I ever did when buying my Turkish tactical pumps. (????)

Is this just a small hiccup with these legendary models?
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I just purchased a 590A1 from Wolverine Supplies and put 200 shells through it on Friday - slugs, target loads, buck. No issues whatsoever. Granted this is only anecdotal, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a 590A1 to anyone looking for that style of shotgun.
 
Comminus said:
...Granted this is only anecdotal, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a 590A1 to anyone looking for that style of shotgun.
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Perfect illustration of my point: All the anecdotes in the world can only ever tell us that one particular individual firearm runs great. It's good to know that individual guns can work, but frankly that's always going to be the case for every viable model of firearm. I saw a UTAS shotgun run with 100% reliability, for example, but few would consider the model as a reliable option.

Anecdotes tell us exactly zero about the actual rates of reliability, which is probably what most people are concerned with when comparing models.
 
alpining said:
Anecdotes tell us exactly zero about the actual rates of reliability, which is probably what most people are concerned with when comparing models.
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I completely agree. Since we will never have access to manufacturer data on failure rates, quality control issues, or failure analysis data, user anecdotes (reviews, etc) are typically all consumers have available to them when researching nearly any product. While I'd prefer more empirical data, I find I have to settle with finding a balance between warranty coverage, parts availability as related to repair, and consumer anecdotes.
 
I bought a new 590A1 in January. Pulled it out of the box, put the barrel on and ran 100 of those cheap Winchesters that jam up everything through it. The odd one got sticky in the chamber, just a little extra effort to rack the slide. Ate 90% of them like skittles. Then I stripped it, cleaned it, greased it, and now it's smooth as butter and has run everything flawlessly.
 
More times than not, the guns that are jamming are having issues because of ammo choice. The cheap Winchester "Universal" and "Super Target" loads are the biggest culprits of the bunch! Winchester uses a higher content of steel in the manufacture of their shotshell "brass" and when fired it expands but does not contract at the same rate(or at all) as old school brass "brass" and gets wedged in the chamber. If you happen to have a rough finished chamber it only amplifies the problem. I've seen this Winchester stuff get stuck in just about any 12ga. you can dream of...even a perfectly manufactured Krieghoff!
 
VLT79 said:
More times than not, the guns that are jamming are having issues because of ammo choice. The cheap Winchester "Universal" and "Super Target" loads are the biggest culprits of the bunch! Winchester uses a higher content of steel in the manufacture of their shotshell "brass" and when fired it expands but does not contract at the same rate(or at all) as old school brass "brass" and gets wedged in the chamber. If you happen to have a rough finished chamber it only amplifies the problem. I've seen this Winchester stuff get stuck in just about any 12ga. you can dream of...even a perfectly manufactured Krieghoff!
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Hmmm, my Hatsan's with chrome lined barrels love both the cheap and expensive stuff equally. Maybe I'll just stick with what's been working for me so far.
 
The cheapie Winchesters used to stick on occasion in my 590. I used a Dremel with a felt wheel and some Fitz polish to lightly polish the chamber. I get the occasional hull that needs a little extra effort to cycle but nothing major. I've seen guys having to mortar their 870 to extract a spent hull. I've started shooting Federal Top Gun stuff and no issues so far, then again, my shotty is broken in already. lol
 
I have 6 870's of different variations , finishes love them all. But honestly my three winchesters and benelli supenrnova seem to be the four smoothest shotguns on the planet, and that is saying something since i have been a 870 guy from day one.
 
modernworrior said:
I have 6 870's of different variations , finishes love them all. But honestly my three winchesters and benelli supenrnova seem to be the four smoothest shotguns on the planet, and that is saying something since i have been a 870 guy from day one.
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So you got 10 shottys? Here I am justifying getting a third! Lol!
 
My 870 Express (remember, the worst gun on earth according to some) never once jammed on even cheap Winchester loads. I now have an 870 Police and 590A1 I'd trust to eat anything. BUT ####ty ammo being the culprit, why not put better ammo through it?
You don't put cheap gas in a car and wonder why it doesn't burn as well as good gasoline.
 
mr00jimbo said:
... why not put better ammo through it?
You don't put cheap gas in a car and wonder why it doesn't burn as well as good gasoline.
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I generally agree with you, but it is nice to have a car that will run on paint thinner if it needs to.

It's a fairly easy almost zero-cost fix to polish those chambers, though, so I think it's reasonable that buying the cheapest shotgun on the market might require a bit of work to make it run perfectly with the crappiest ammo.
 
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