CZ 858 Cheek Weld and Red Dot

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G0DFATHER

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Hi guys,
First off, yes, I've taken a quick peek through the sticky about CZ858/vz58 optics and I don't believe this is answered in there (there are also around 24 pages...).

I've noticed that the 858 stock angles down slightly, which allows you to get a good cheek weld and proper sight alignment with the iron sights. However, I feel like if you added optics, like a red dot, you'd have to break your cheek weld and hold your head up higher. Maybe this is just a personal thing, but I feel like if I can press my face into the same spot on the stock in a snug fashion every time that my shots are much quicker and more accurate, but with my face barely touching the stock my head bobbles around a bit more and consistency suffers. I've seen people beefing up their skinny folding stocks with cheek risers too, but I'm not sure if this is actually to rise to the cheek or just for comfort.

Anyone who has seen the Tapco T6 stock for a ruger 10/22 should know what I mean. It comes with an angled stock adaptor (for using iron sights) and a straight stock adaptor (for using optics, since they're higher up).

http://taccessories.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=65

So the question is:

For all of you who use CZ858's or vz58's with a red dot, how do you find the cheek weld on either the factory folding or factory composite stock? Do you find that you've got to prop your head up higher to get a clear sight picture or is it just fine?

I know there are stocks that have built in adjustable risers, but for the moment I'm considering just the factory stock.

Thanks
 
The only option that is going to retain your cheek weld is the NEA cowitness handguard. It allows the use of a micro dot mounted low enough to lower 1/3 cowitness with the irons. But unless you mount magnified optics then this is not a big issue. Reflex sights do not require you line up behind them like a scope or irons. Once sighted in, the bullet hits where the dot is, moving your head around doesnt affect that. Pretty much all other mounting systems will ruin your cheek weld with the factory stock, even Fab Defense handguards.
 
NEA stock adapter with upper handguard will be a perfect co-witness with irons, the railed adapter sits a little to high fo me in that application so I changed it to the regular one, check weld is great.
 
I made stocks for optics in mind.

deckstockb-1.jpg


The red one is adjustable for height.

58DECKSTOCKS.jpg
 
Wow, thanks for all the info guys. It seems that the NEA upper is the way to go, too bad I already bought my Fab Defense kit... Maybe I'll just Macgyver a cheek rest like some of you have done.

supernova said:
. Once sighted in, the bullet hits where the dot is, moving your head around doesnt affect that.
Click to expand...

And this is not true, and kind of the original point I was making. I have a RDS that also has a laser output. You can activate both the red dot and the laser at the same time (I don't know why you'd want to do this other than to make this demonstration). While keeping the rifle steady, it is possible to move your head around in different positions, and it's clear that while the dot from the laser stays steady, the dot from the sight actually moves around a bit, about 3.5 degrees. That's about a 2 metre shift at 100 metres. I suppose this would count as parallax, and is why a consistent cheek weld is important.

Thanks again.
 
G0DFATHER said:
Wow, thanks for all the info guys. It seems that the NEA upper is the way to go, too bad I already bought my Fab Defense kit... Maybe I'll just Macgyver a cheek rest like some of you have done.



And this is not true, and kind of the original point I was making. I have a RDS that also has a laser output. You can activate both the red dot and the laser at the same time (I don't know why you'd want to do this other than to make this demonstration). While keeping the rifle steady, it is possible to move your head around in different positions, and it's clear that while the dot from the laser stays steady, the dot from the sight actually moves around a bit, about 3.5 degrees. That's about a 2 metre shift at 100 metres. I suppose this would count as parallax, and is why a consistent cheek weld is important.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

what range where you trying this at? at close range any rds will have some parrallax but most are parrallax free beyond 25-50y. Vortex claims less than 1" error inside 50 yds and parrallax free beyond that so there will be no error at 100yds. Thats the whole point to rds sights, the lack of parrallax error is what makes them the fastest and easiest sight you can use. If its a cheap laser/rds combo or you are trying this at short ranges then that is the problem, at 100 yds both the laser and reticle should stay syncronised together. If they do not then something is wrong with them.
 
This wasn't tested at an actual range, it's kind of hard to explain, maybe these pictures will help. Sorry for the poor quality. As I said, you should see two small red dots. One dot is from the RDS, the other is from a laser built into the RDS (so an actual laser dot on the wall it's aimed at, about 8 feet away).

In this first photo you can see they're fairly close together.

DSCF0026.jpg


In the next photo, all I've done is change the position of the camera (the same as shifting your head around) and you can see that the distance between the two has grown quite a bit (maybe 5 cm at that distance, which would grow a lot more at longer range, wouldn't it?).

DSCF0027.jpg



Remember, the laser (dot on the left) stays the same, the rifle doesn't move. But if the shooter shifts the wrong way, he will think his shots are on target, while in fact they're flying far to the right. As I understand most RDS have curved lenses to help correct this, and like you said that's the whole appeal, but I thought none of them are truly parallax free. Maybe I've just got a crappier RDS and in my case it's more extreme, hence why people drop 4-500 bucks on optics. It also was done at short range, but I'm not sure how this would make a difference, I guess I need to read up more about how parallax works.
 
PWT: vortex rds have the parrallax set at 50 yds and are parrallax free beyond that. Godfather: what you are seeing is parrallax and it is normal for short range even with rds. Try this: move out to a longer range with your test and retry. You will notice less error the farther out you go. Even unmount the optic and take it outside and try at 50 yds. The reason you can see so much error is because the red dot and laser are mounted with some distance between them so to zero them together requires they converge at an angle. The longer the distance you aim at will move the lasers POI on a plane that intersects the red dot. It will be zeroed at 1 range and require adjustment and/or holdover with windage at different ranges. Once you get out past the rds' parrallax there will be no error so long as you can see the dot. Some cheap rds do have some parrallax near the outside of the lenses (the dot will stretch and deform) when you move your head far enough. Hope this helps
 
supernova said:
PWT: vortex rds have the parrallax set at 50 yds and are parrallax free beyond that. Godfather: what you are seeing is parrallax and it is normal for short range even with rds. Try this: move out to a longer range with your test and retry. You will notice less error the farther out you go. Even unmount the optic and take it outside and try at 50 yds. The reason you can see so much error is because the red dot and laser are mounted with some distance between them so to zero them together requires they converge at an angle. The longer the distance you aim at will move the lasers POI on a plane that intersects the red dot. It will be zeroed at 1 range and require adjustment and/or holdover with windage at different ranges. Once you get out past the rds' parrallax there will be no error so long as you can see the dot. Some cheap rds do have some parrallax near the outside of the lenses (the dot will stretch and deform) when you move your head far enough. Hope this helps
Click to expand...

This makes sense to me. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Ahhh, that makes sense, the angle. I'll have to give it a try at a longer range like you said, but I guess cheek weld is a bit of a non-issue then.

And Pistolwhiptricks, it is a cheapo NcStar RDS. Not terrible quality, but it's certainly no eotech. Then again if you spend 600 bucks on optics I'd expect it to be top quality. The distortion shown with my RDS is pretty extreme, and you've got to have your head in a really odd spot to achieve it, but even still I thought that any advice I can get to shoot better is good advice.

Thanks for the info guys.
 
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