CZ 858 Trigger Pull

TDC, you are right about muzzle device. I wasn't fully considering that factor. However I stand by any improvement being an advantage. Yes this is a comunist era service rifle, that point is certainly not lost on me. I just don't understand the mindset of not improving it because of that.

As for Mr. Carr, you have no idea of my shooting qualifications so lets not bring that into this.
 
JDForBrkFst said:
TDC, you are right about muzzle device. I wasn't fully considering that factor. However I stand by any improvement being an advantage. Yes this is a comunist era service rifle, that point is certainly not lost on me. I just don't understand the mindset of not improving it because of that.

As for Mr. Carr, you have no idea of my shooting qualifications so lets not bring that into this.
Click to expand...

The fact its an East Bloc rifle has little bearing on the fact that it is a SERVICE rifle, no different than an AR. Neither were designed for precision work. I'm of the opinion that if you want a precision rifle then build up a bolt gun. Service rifles are designed for volume shooting with acceptable levels of accuracy. The AR is easier to "accurize" and the options are endless. The VZ is not a system that can be modified or "improved" without a lot of work as there are few mods available. I agree that any "improvement" is an advantage. By definition an improvement must be a net gain otherwise its not an improvement. However, messing with the trigger is far from a fast or rewarding venture when performance is the goal. Improved sights and/or the addition of a reddot along with a compensator will be a greater improvement and for less hassle than a trigger job. I've shot a fair number of CZ's and only one had a truly atrocious trigger.

TDC
 
I'm not talking about a precision gun, I'm talking about exploring ways to improve this one. In this case the trigger, as is the topic of this thread. Putting on an optic and a comp are obvious improvements, no where did I suggest a trigger is the be all end all on improving a firearm as you seem to imply that I am. Is it so crazy to desire to improve ones firearms to maximize their ability?
 
JDForBrkFst said:
I'm not talking about a precision gun, I'm talking about exploring ways to improve this one. In this case the trigger, as is the topic of this thread. Putting on an optic and a comp are obvious improvements, no where did I suggest a trigger is the be all end all on improving a firearm as you seem to imply that I am. Is it so crazy to desire to improve ones firearms to maximize their ability?
Click to expand...

With the intent of the rifle the caliber and the surplus ammo. An optic and comp would be maximizing the potential of the rifle. Its a service rifle and it excels at its intended role. There is nothing more to improve upon given the fixed variables of caliber barrel design/quality and overall layout of the rifle. They are not conducive to magnified optics or long range work in any capacity. Which would make a crisp trigger an asset. Its a 300 yard gun max.

Tdc
 
I'm sure, because triggers like the Geissele 3gun are useless in CQB....
I don't expect any improvement like that be even remotely possible, just illustrating the point that a better trigger is an advantage even in CQB. I understand it's a different round than 223 and harder to control at speed, but for those that can this would be an advantage.

His stated intent is to see if any improvements can be made. I'm interested to see how he makes out. Apparantly thats a bad thing though.

On that note. I tried, I give up. It's like talking to a wall. Blast away your same points over again if you must.
 
You get into lots of CQB fights? It should be challenging at all to keep all fired rounds as fast as you can on a torso sized target 20 yards or less with a proper stance and control of the gun.
 
I do have operational experience, and have been in a CQB fight if you must know. That doesn't make me know it all by any means, but you asked. I'm more making the point towards competition like 3 gun, as thats what most of us would be doing. That application shouldn't push someone as far in the black hopefully, so one could derive more benefit from a better trigger. I am specifically not into the long reset of the trigger, I find it throws me off being used to an AR type trigger. Now unless anyone else feels the need to call me out on my experience...

All this because I wished buddy well on his endeavor to improve the rifles trigger and thought he shouldn't be faulted for that. Jesus, why bother.
 
JDForBrkFst said:
I do have operational experience, and have been in a CQB fight if you must know. That doesn't make me know it all by any means, but you asked. I'm more making the point towards competition like 3 gun, as thats what most of us would be doing. That application shouldn't push someone as far in the black hopefully, so one could derive more benefit from a better trigger. I am specifically not into the long reset of the trigger, I find it throws me off being used to an AR type trigger. Now unless anyone else feels the need to call me out on my experience...

All this because I wished buddy well on his endeavor to improve the rifles trigger and thought he shouldn't be faulted for that. Jesus, why bother.
Click to expand...

L.O.L. Seriously entertaining pwnage!

Why bother indeed. I hope you've learned your lesson ;)
 
Well, I'm glad everyone is happy with 6lb triggers with long pulls and long resets.
To each his own, but I'll bet if you found a drop in 4lbs. trigger kit that reduces the pull and reset for a reasonable price, you would try it or least your buddy's. ;)

I know that AR15 triggers and non-flat tops were horrible once too and I couldn't live with creepy 8lbs. pulls then. I remember when we had to cutoff the carry handle and makeshift a scope mount for the AR. M4's hadn't been invented yet nor the Elcan for the C7.
I just happen to like progress and Service Rifles are no exception. The heavy match barreled AR15's are amazingly accurate today.
I agree it's mostly the shooter in Service Rifle comps. The top shooters with the most accurate rifles always win though.

Nobody is kidding me when I see IPSC pistols that have triggers under 2lbs. and crisp!
 
JDForBrkFst said:
I'm sure, because triggers like the Geissele 3gun are useless in CQB....
I don't expect any improvement like that be even remotely possible, just illustrating the point that a better trigger is an advantage even in CQB. I understand it's a different round than 223 and harder to control at speed, but for those that can this would be an advantage.

His stated intent is to see if any improvements can be made. I'm interested to see how he makes out. Apparantly thats a bad thing though.

On that note. I tried, I give up. It's like talking to a wall. Blast away your same points over again if you must.
Click to expand...

I bring up the same points repeatedly because you don't seem to get it. The rifle will never be a tack driver. The design and the cartridge are not conducive to such. If you want an accurate rifle for competing then run a custom ar or a swiss. Not that I'm a fan of tricking out an ar but it is much easier to do and the system is already much more accurate than a stock vz. Again that all has little to no benefit if you haven't already mastered the fundamentals of marksmanship to include trigger control and recoil management. Again adding a reddot and a good comp are far more beneficial than an improved trigger.


If you're going to try and improve a design for academic purposes that's one thing. If you intend to improve something as a means of performance gain then do your homework. Start with the right tool for the right job and improve on features that will actually make a noticeable difference for the intended role of the firearm.
Tdc
 
You don't need a trigger job to improve the VZ58. In my opinion and ambi mag release and perhaps a good system for mounting optics are all that are needed. A brake is nice but not necessary.

Here's a vid from a recent VZ course I took. AFAIK none of their rifles had trigger jobs and they all shot their rifles just fine....
[Youtube]uD1rP-ogll8[/Youtube]
 
To do a real trigger job on this platform it has to do with changing some spring's and the missing disconnector in-order to do a safe trigger job. But our country's infanity wisdom deemed that the main safety device in the 858 trigger can not be in there because who want's saftey or reliabilty when shooting?
Although if you spend a day with Clobb he will get you straightend out ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom