Czech 7.62x39mm surplus cutaway reveals.______

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Action-shooter

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I just took apart a Czech military FMJ 7.62x39mm surplus round out of curiosity and found something that MIGHT explain the penetrations at 75yards on 5/8" steel.

plz don't flame.. thanks Here is a linked picture showing 3 layers in the bullet.

1 copper jacket
2 liner
3 a steel core which pops out apon bending the bullet downwards.


http://community.webshots.com/user/actionshooter58
 
now my mind pondering here .. .. it is very light but I am wondering if it is tungsten or very just extreamly hard steel as my bansaw had a VERY hard time getting through it!! It honestly is probably just very hard van steel or thereof .. thinking a bit you won't see tungsten being sold at surplus pricing .. ie) $165 for 1120 rounds ... so it is probably not.

BTW: WE have hads range fires from this stuff as it tends to fragment into bits apon impact of rocks and steel plates. People who shoot evenings have told be it really makes some wicked sparks
when you hit stuff with it. That i haven't that seen yet. :shock:
 
If you want to know what's steel and what isn't, take a magnet to the pieces.....
You sectioned the bullet the wrong way, should be cut vertically to show the different layers.....dremel with a cutoff wheel works better than a band saw if you have one.
 
I know it is the wrong way but I tried the dremel and it couldn't cut through the core. I don't have the diamond cutter bit to cut hard steel.

Anyway there are 3 layers. a copper jacket, a lead liner and this core which is steel and yup it's quite magnetic.

this is why these bullets are causing the fires when they are hitting steel targets or glancing off rocks. There is a lot of steel in them!

This also explains why they punch holes in the 5/8" (1.58cm) steel gongs at 75 yards.
 
Well, now you have to go and shoot some steel with it..... :lol:
I only had 1 full stripper clip of that stuff, I usually shoot russian non-corrosive but for the test borrowed some. It was bxn 70 something for the year on the head.....
Marstar doesn't list it as having steel anything (other than the case) where they do list the 7.62x54 as steel core and 7.62x25 as steel jacket......and after shooting it into the steel, it just seemed like standard lead core ball.......
 
Action-shooter said:
I know it is the wrong way but I tried the dremel and it couldn't cut through the core. I don't have the diamond cutter bit to cut hard steel.

Anyway there are 3 layers. a copper jacket, a lead liner and this core which is steel and yup it's quite magnetic.

this is why these bullets are causing the fires when they are hitting steel targets or glancing off rocks. There is a lot of steel in them!

This also explains why they punch holes in the 5/8" (1.58cm) steel gongs at 75 yards.
Click to expand...

Pics! Now that's more like it! :) It looks to have a steel core, got some too, I'll get some steel.

Definitely seems hotter than the Norinco, I'll take out some czech and hit some 5/8, who knows? Let's see? Anyone else?

Hitzy, what 7.62x39 was that?

Regards,

DT
 
This is just about all you can get here in BC. Czech surplus ammo.. There is some Norinco ammo that I would like to test in Nanaimo.. but I hear it is rather pricey stuff. $5/20rnds were as the Czech is $2.94 for 20 rounds equivalent~ if my math works out .. :?:
 
hey dangertree I think hitzys test was at 100yards? I may be wrong on that one? I'll get to try it this weekend at the 68.58m mark. :lol: :mrgreen:
 
All M43 uses a mild steel core and a bi-metal jacket. It is cheaper and provides slightly greater penetration that lead. It also provides for a larger bullet for a given weight.
 
Hi

It's not just 7.62x39 that has steel in it.

S&B 9mm and 32acp will also have a steel core.

The 9mm weights around 100 grns and does over 1400fps

Some guys bought the 32acp ammo and tried in an indore range the club once used. It had the nasty habit of returning to the shooter. :wink:

Yup the 7.62x39 stuff sparks up real nice when firing at night. Did it years ago when 30rnd mags were okay. Someone made the comment, "looks just like the RAMBO movies."

I miss the good old days :(

Sticker
 
Yup.. exactly what I am talking about! Sparks, alot of them from 7.62x39mm Czech.. I knew Czech stuff isn't the only one that contains steel core.
I have to be VERy careful right now as the brush is tinder dry so I am only shooting were I can see open areas without fuel around.. ie) brush/grass
like i said it has caused 1 or 2 small fires at JDF this summer, a *potentially* major one being @ the ~210yard mark. God I am so happy one of the range members put it out before it spread into the surrounding brush - trees.. close one... too close. :shock:

Anyway you'll see what I mean by penetration when you line up and drill a 5/8" steel plate with the stuff @ ~75yards.
 
Sticker said:
Hi

It's not just 7.62x39 that has steel in it.

S&B 9mm and 32acp will also have a steel core.

The 9mm weights around 100 grns and does over 1400fps

Some guys bought the 32acp ammo and tried in an indore range the club once used. It had the nasty habit of returning to the shooter. :wink:

Yup the 7.62x39 stuff sparks up real nice when firing at night. Did it years ago when 30rnd mags were okay. Someone made the comment, "looks just like the RAMBO movies."

I miss the good old days :(

Sticker
Click to expand...

We had a problem with the S&B 9mm ammo at my old club. Sparking off the backstop was igniting cardboard and dust. The magnet test showed the bullets were magnetic, so we suspected a steel core. I pulled one and melted the lead core out of it. It appeared to be either a steel jacket, or nickle plated copper jacket. Sanding the jacket revealed a copper layer.
 
.. interesting :mrgreen:

I wonder what would happen if you replaced the steel core with something like (WoTh) alloy Tungsten Thorium alloy used in TIG welders/cutter electrodes. That stuff is also highly pyrophoric when it becomes a dust say in like in the case of hitting something hard (steel plates) . Not to mention it is also mildly radioactive. The radioactivity could be used to pinpoint your round if it went through something. like a tracer but after the fact. .. ideas .. ideas.. ideas ? :D :?:
 
Because of using a common high temperature allloy used in TIG welders... I don't think so!

The fact it has thorium in it is purely for ionization purposes when you strike the arc.. the extra ionization from the beta particles ( high speed electrons) causes the arc to stike at a further distance than say a pure tungsten tip would allow. Same goes for spark plugs, flourescent lighting cathodes, neon lamps and smoke detectors.... which by the way all have radioisotopes in them!! The radiation from a TIG tip is extreamly minimal ( well below the 37Kbq/g legal standards) but still quite detectable with a GM counter a few 10's of uSv/hr.

This is why you you build a "radioactive" bullet and use it to see where your bullet ended up... My guess is that you would have excellent results from say pistol rounds that you home load.. :?: :?: :D :mrgreen: Like I said this is an idea.. haven't tired it just yet.
 
Sparks come from every steel core round, typically Sov block - no conspiracy theory....and no, M43 rounds still won't penetrate 5/8" plate at 75m....
 
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