Dangerous Muzzleloaders - Need an Experts Opinion on a Winchester BlackPowder Rifle

Devlin

Devlin

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After doing some research I am adding this for others take a read at the link below:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm


So Bass Pro has Winchester Apex Magnum Muzzleloaders on sale as part of their boxing day sale. I happen to have some Bass Pro gift certificates to use up from my kids.

They want $199 for either the .45 cal or the .50 cal version

I will admit upfront I know the square root of bugger all about black powder rifles but have been interested in them for sometime now. Can anyone offer any insights on this gun and would it be a good purchase at that price (if the Bass Pro monkeys have any left)?

The reviews I have read on the gun appear to be good for the most part, though I wanted to check here as well before laying down the cash.

Any input or advice is welcomed.
 
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Devlin said:
So Bass Pro has Winchester Apex Magnum Muzzleloaders on sale as part of their boxing day sale. I happen to have some Bass Pro gift certificates to use up from my kids.

They want $199 for either the .45 cal or the .50 cal version

I will admit upfront I know the square root of bugger all about black powder rifles but have been interested in them for sometime now. Can anyone offer any insights on this gun and would it be a good purchase at that price (if the Bass Pro monkeys have any left)?

The reviews I have read on the gun appear to be good for the most part, though I wanted to check here as well before laying down the cash.

Any input or advice is welcomed.
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It's a pretty low end muzzleloader as reflected by the price. For another $150 I'd go for an Omega but if that's all you have to spend, it will get the job done. Buy a .50 cal no matter what though. There are way more bullet and accessory choices for the .50. The .45 in-lines are pretty much a dead horse.
 
I have been shooting traditional muzzleloader for more than 20 years, but haven't had much to do with inlines. I do know that you will have a lot more ammo to choose from with a .50 than a .45.
 
Thanks guys I'm going to take a look first hand tomorrow and see what the quality of the gun is like. I'm looking to test the waters with Blackpowder as I have just moved to southern Ontario and as was explained to me high power centre fire is a definite no go down here.....

I'll take a look at the Omega's as well thanks for the input. I did plan to go with .50 cal in any event as it seems to be a much more popular calibre.
 
That Randy Wakemans article is often cited. The now defunct Apollo line was the culprit. Anything of Spanish manufacture was branded in his article. He's like the Don Cherry on Muzzleloading, and not a fan off anything that originates "over the pond".

Any-who................

Thompson Center Omega Z5 in .50 cal. It is about as entry level inline as TC goes - it just isn't as finished as the full blown Omega line, but still posses all the advantages. $400 will kit you the rifle and a starter kit (-minus powder. primers).

I do not have any experience with the .45, but 5/100's of an inch is hardly worth retooling your possibilites bag. Especially given the limited bullet selection.
 
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Don't get in a big hurry just because they are on sale. Take a good look around at what is out there and decide what you really want. You don't need 150g of powder to get the job done, and that is where some of the saftey concerns come from. There is a lot of misinformation out about it all. I shoot round balls out of a sidelock and fill my tags as well as any muzzleloader can, and it is a lot cheaper to shoot too. Read some, look at a lot and shoot as many as you can. Most black powder shooters are more than happy to let you take a poke out of their rifle. Whatever you get good luck and have fun.
 
New or used if in doubt give it a proof load first . I will not give advice on what load to use for this but check dixie gun works they have information on how to do this.
 
I already have the rifle I want, and that is a Lyman Trade rifle in .54. If I was looking at a inline [ God help me] I would look at the Traditions "Persuit". A friend has one and it shoots good, is quick to clean up, and the price is right.
 
T/C Omega is a great way to get in with an economical but quality gun. If you are looking for an in-line that is. No better value on the market today imho. Just took delivery of a new Triumph myself today and am really impressed with it. Hopefully get out and shoot it this weekend.
 
I have a Remington 700ml not made anymore and hard to clean but it does the job. Unless you go smokeless make sure it is easy to clean as all will due the job.
 
the chuck hawks article refers to one gun manufactured one year the apollo as stated above and were talking quite a few years ago,the winchester is manufactured by bpi the same as cva who is the #1 selling bp guns on the market,they just had a bad batch of barrels as for randy wakeman he loves the savage ml guns and they have also had problem barrels do some research on wakeman and you will see he is very opinionated,the winchester was 499 down to 199,i had friends line up for 5 hours ,i did not wait but it is a lot of gun for the money ya you could spend a lot more but you dont get more,seriously i own 2 tcs a night and bought the savage,i wish i had stuck to a bp like tc instead of the savage,i can load a lot faster and dont mind the cleaning i even enjoy the precussion guns,i wont sell the savage just yet but when i go hunting i will take anything but as we have cold days here the sabots for savage dont seal well,like i said if i new that i would have bought anything but,I prefer break actions,easy to load and prime,easy to clean,muzzle loading have so many varients that you have fans on all sides of the fence but to me using the 209 primers with pellets is the way to go hunting,just for refrence i have 2 lyman flintlocks,4 precusion cap s and 3 inlines plus the tc encore,my number one choice is the tc encore 3 pellts 777 and the 290 aero tip power belt ,no sabot to mess with and fast loading,ive got seven deer that belong to that gun in 4 years Party hunting.enjoy what you pic and keep your powder dry and flash hole clear and you will have no problems,cheers george
 
snowshoe said:
I already have the rifle I want, and that is a Lyman Trade rifle in .54. If I was looking at a inline [ God help me] I would look at the Traditions "Persuit". A friend has one and it shoots good, is quick to clean up, and the price is right.
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Hi Snowshoe. I have a Traditions Pursuit LT 50 cal inline. For my first BP I am happy with it. I was interested in the Lyman Trade rifle for my next purchase but when I looked at one at Wholesale Sports (Edmonton) the stock was cracked in 2 places...right at the butt plate screws. The saleman pulled 2 others from the back room and they were both cracked in the same place. Dry wood shrink? screw holes not predrilled? who knows...does yours show any signs of cracking?. I opted for a Traditions Hawken 50 cal percussion. Happy with my decision.
 
Even though I particularly don't like spanish muzzle loaders, it is worth noting that all european made muzzle loaders that I am familiar with have been proof tested, including the spanish ones. I think the article is total bs intended to promote the sale of a home grown product. There are several hundred people who shoot muzzle loaders in this province and while I have heard of 3 guns that split or blew up in some fashion, none were foreign made and all were a result of some aspect of improper loading or other operator error such as a cross threaded nipple.
Finally it catches my attention that all of the guns that blew up appear to be inlines which leaves me to wonder if (assuming they really blew up) the damage was a result of using smokeless or of failing to seat the bullet/sabot on the powder but rather used a heavy charge then seated the bullet a couple of inches up the bore.

cheers mooncoon
 
dogger1 said:
as for randy wakeman he loves the savage ml guns and they have also had problem barrels do some research on wakeman and you will see he is very opinionated
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I've been moderating over at Savage Shooters with Randy for a few years now and while your right, he is set in his ways his judgement and opinions come from months and or years of extensive trial and error.

More or less, he knows his ####.;):D
 
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