De-sporterizing a No.1 Mk.3 Lithgow and I have a question.

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I posted this in the restoration thread but figured it might get seen more with a separate thread of its own, hopefully someone can answer a question for me re: an enfield resto I'm almost finished with. Being the first one Ive tackled there's a couple small details I'm unsure about.

Is it necessary to have the stock bolt plate and the two copper shim plates installed in the lower fore stock on a No.1 Mk.3 enfield? I'm de sporterizing my dads old 1921 Lithgow I inhereted and that's the last thing I'm left with doing, the sporterized lower fore stock had the plate and shims. The complete Aussie set of furniture I managed to find did not, it fits nice and tight to the body of the action but there was a small crack on the rear end of the forestock where the butt stock bolt would sit. I glued the crack and have it all fit and assembled with no play butt to muzzle, I feel the bolt plate would add some reinforcement to the back face of the forestock but if its not 100% necessary I'd rather not carve the hole for it.

What do you all think, should I leave it be and hit the range or install the shims and butt stock bolt plate?
 
If the bedding is tight, have at her.

From what flavour of wood is the stock made? The copper plates were to beef up the `draws` on coachwood stocks as the wood is relatively soft and prone to breakage after lots of shooting.

How much do you intend shooting it?

The stock plate is to capture a square end of the late type stock bolt to keep it from coming loose. As long as the bolt is in tight and doesn't project through the butt socket and bind the back of the forearm, I'd say you is good to go!
 
Thanks for the reply, I intend to shoot it regularly and would like to keep the lower forestock from cracking anymore than it was. Which was minor as far as I'm concerned, I'll have to re check that things are bedded in nice and proper before I decide to omit the shims. I'm not sure on the type of wood used, they're from Australia if that helps. I was able to nab a set of wood as well as all the other bits and pieces from a chap in Australia, so things are about as correct as I could make it. The only part that's not a matching #'s part is the nose cap, the rifle is a 1921 date stamp and as far as I can tell the nose cap is from 41 but is Aussie stamped. Once I get some photos loaded into photo bucket I'll get some before and after shot up.

The stock bolt is nice and tight so I'm not concerned with it backing out, I was thinking the bolt plate might ad some strength back into the fore stock in case the glued crack starts to get worse. Pretty sure the crack is from the fore stock not being removed when the stock bolt was removed at some point.

I'm itching to take it to the range and see how it shoots and get it sighted but Id rather complete the refurbish correctly.
 
Mate its very hard to say whether the plates are necessary or not. The Lithgow engineers thought they were, because as has been said in the previous post and thousands of times elsewhere, coachwood is rather soft and the draws can be prone to bruising. Ive had well used lithgows that have never had the plates installed with hardly any noticeable damage or wood compression at all but had others where the draws were completely busted out. It only takes a small amount of bruising to allow movement of the action in the stock and its this movement when firing that escalates the damage. I haven't seen your stock so can't comment with absolute certainty, but it sounds like the crack you are talking about is one that is very common on all coachwood stocks and is hardly detrimental to its effectiveness. The plates won't combat this. For the record, the same sort of damage can occur on walnut stocks and I've seen a number of English rifles and Early Australian rifles, stocked in walnut with busted draws. I personally think the plates are an improvement to any stock and the Lithgow engineers must have thought the same, because many walnut stocks have had the plates installed also. If you prevent the bruising, you eliminate the the chance of much more serious damage that will be beyond conventional methods of repair. I'm a little intrigued that this forend does not have the recess for the stock bolt plate. Can you elaborate on that a little more for us?
 
I'll try and describe the rear of the fore stock, I'll have to get some pics of it all when I take it apart when I check the bedding. The sporterized fore stock had the bolt plate installed and the grove in the wood up to the top. When I recieved the new furniture the rear face of the stock didn't have the bolt plate and the grove where the bolt end would sit in the stock was minimal. In order to fit the lower stock I had to carve the groove longer in order for the fore stock to seat around the action, once caved out it all slid home with ease.

What's darker, coachwood or walnut? My sporterized stock and butt stock were lighter than the new wood, if I had to guess I'd say the new might be walnut. The underside which is unfinished is the same darkness than the BLO finished outside surface, so I don't think it's been stained. I'm leaning towards installing the shims as well as the bolt plate more and more, seeing as they do serve a reinforcing function. I want to actually shot it regularly, so maybe it's a good idea to add them.

Thanks for all the input, I really want this LE to be tight. I never got to shoot it when my dad was around, so it's got a bit of sentimental value as well as the historical side of the coin. It looks so much nicer in full wood than it ever did all bubba'd up lol, started hunting for a bayonet for it.
 
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The sportered wood is most likely Queensland maple being a 1921 lithgow. Coachwood can be light in colour also, especially when its been rubbed back and dicked with. I've always thought that Lithgow stocks had the recess machined and stock bolt plate installed before they went for fitting to a rifle. I've owned a number of these.

If its walnut, its not likely to be Australian.
 
If the end of the forend is not relieve for the Stock bolt keeper plate, then it could be a Ishapore forend.

Ishapore.



Normal, everyone else.
 
I'll try and get some pics up, it's not dark like an Ishapore or some of the British enfields I've seen. Pretty typical Lithgow looking finish, it has the SLAZ 42 stamp under the brass butt plate. Nose cap is stamped BA, as is the trigger guard that was on it when I took possession of it. Butt plate and front brass band are stamped OA, it has the HV high velocity stamp on the barrel. I tried pretty hard to track down as much Aussie parts as possible, I'm missing a bayonet, sling and an oiler. I picked up an oiler and pull through at a local gun show last weekend but it's British or possibly Canadian iirc.

The butt stock that was on it originally has a lot of stamping and marking on the right side as well as some initials carved into the left hand side but it was refinished and varnished at some point, I'm going to try and strip it down without sanding and finish it to match the new wood. Were there regimental markings on the butt stock? There was only one I couldn't make out or decipher, I didn't find any regimental marks on the barrel or rest of the action etc.

For what it's worth the butt stock and lower wood are a match in color, the top hand guards are a touch lighter. I know it's a mixed set but the seller seems to know his Lithgow's and sell a lot of parts so I'm fairly certain it's all Aussie but who can really know at this point, he provided all the clamps, nose cap etc etc. For being a mixed set of wood it's as close of a match as I could've hoped for.
 
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Finally found a bit of time to finish the old gal off, installed the recoil shim plates. There was a bit of fore and aft play in the lower fore stock which is now nice and snug, the lower stock clicks in easily with no play now. Installed the butt screw plate for added measure, carefully marked and chiseled the recess for it and epoxied it in place. I'll be taking it out for its first shooting next week, pretty excited to fire it. I always tried to get my dad to shoot it, it's about time it saw some use. Hope it shoots straight, I'd love to have this Aussie beauty as a reg shooter.

Tracked down an Aussie bandolier and some stripper clips as well as a matching sling, just need to find a period bayonet for a decent price. Does anyone have a lithgow nose cap in the A88566 serial number range they want to trade or sell? I'm matching numbers on the action, barrel, bolt, rear sight but not the nose cap. It's stamped F25885, still has the kahki green paint on the inside face.

I'll try and get before and after pics loaded this weekend, very pleased with the way it looks now.
 
From what i see & from your comment about it not being relieved for the keeper plate at the rear, your forend is a Ishapore made one & most definitely not Australian.
 
@5THBATT thanks, that makes more sense on why the butt screw plate was not there. Ah well I can live with it regardless.

@woodchopper thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure why I didn't catch that, I've been looking for one in the right serial number range anyways. It was a freebie from the guy I bought the wood set of off so it didn't cost me anything thankfully.
 
One more question, had the nose cap and off and I noticed there's a hole in the lower forend that's in front of the rear screw that holds the nose cap down. Is this the spring that is supposed to put upward pressure at the muzzle end of the barrel? If so its missing on mine, Marstars exploded view of the no1 mk3 parts list has part number 044 and 045. They're listed as fore end stud and fore end stud spring. Can anyone confirm that's what goes in the lower fore stock hole, it would sit right in the middle of where the nose cap would be.
 
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