Death of the Berger 6mm 105 VLD

Eric, how about sending me a bunch of Berger stickers so I can include them with my shipments?

Great way to get some advertising up here.

Any promo stuff you want to do, I am happy to coordinate with Michelle. You can send the stuff through me and save on postage.

Happy to help you get the word out....

Jerry
 
Greenpasture,

I take exception with your comments and ask you to provide any evidence that I have published "grossly high BCs". The man you speak of so highly (Walt Berger) is the person who calculated our BC's using a program given to him by Bill Davis.

The BC's Walt generated using this program were the same BC's we published until Bryan Litz became part of our team. Bryan had test fired all our long range bullets (along with all the other brands) and found that our BC's were consistently high by 3% to 5%. This was the result of our putting the wrong BT length and meplat diameter into the calculating program. (Example: We input a BT length of .195 which is true from transition to base but does not take into account the radius at the base which makes the BT .010 to .020 shorter).

When Bryan made us aware of this difference we changed our published BC's to his fired BC's. If you look in Bryan's book Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting you will find that he lists BC's for all brands tested with one process. You will find that your accusation of my publishing "grossly high BC's" when compared to other brands published BC is ridiculous and flirts with slander.

Frankly, you will find that Bryan addresses why each brand publishes numbers that are not consistent with his fired results. In not one single case did Bryan discover evidence that any bullet brand deliberately misstated their published BC numbers. Like with Berger, Bryan was able to identify why BC's were misstated but like Berger this was found to be due to the testing method. Also, the fact that G1 is used rather than G7 played a roll.

You do not know about that of which you speak. Give me your shipping address and I'll mail you one of Bryan's books. I'd be interested in knowing why you have such a strong negative opinion of me and Berger. I have never deliberately misled a shooter. If I'm found to be wrong I am the first to admit it publicly. Prove that I did what you claim and I'll apologize to you in person. If you can't prove it you better be man enough to admit you misspoke.

Regards,
Eric
 
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Eric,

I know it takes asbestos underwear to come onto forums like this . The fact that our diminutive number of Canadian shooters is worthy of your consideration is indeed flattering, In spite of any frustration I may have at my favorite bullet being changed, I will accept your explanation and will give your revised product due consideration.

CyaN1De (Richard) and I have both had the honour of winning the BC Provincial F-Class Championhship Lt. Governor Prize while shooting Berger 105 VLD's... does that earn us some samples :) ?

Thank you for your candor and your time. I appreciate it!

Ian Hames
 
Eric,

Thank-you very much for coming on Gunutz and giving us an honest answer...Well done!

Are you getting any closer on your .338 heavyweight?
(Please God) :D

I'm tired of pointing you competitors bullets! :(
 
Eric, as others have said, stepping up and putting Berger's perspective forward. Takes huge amounts of time and intestinal fortitude to put yourself out there for any and every internet goomba to take a swing at you.
 
Apology accepted. If you send me your shipping details I'll arrange for you to get Bryan's book.

We have completed the build of the machine that will make the 338 cal bullets. We managed to make some samples and they look very good. The next step is to set the machine up to run a known bullet (308 cal) so that we can debug any problems. The debug process is impossible to schedule. Once this machine proves production capable we'll go back to the 338 cal bullets.

I can't make a promise on date of availability but we have completed a key task in finishing the machine build. We are a big step closer.

Regards,
Eric
 
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Eric Stecker said:
We have completed the build of the machine that will make the 338 cal bullets. We managed to make some samples and they look very good. The next step is to set the machine up to run a known bullet (308 cal) so that we can debug any problems. The debug process is impossible to schedule. Once this machine proves production capable we'll go back to the 338 cal bullets.

I can't make a promise on date of availability but we have completed a key task in finishing the machine build. We are a big step closer.

Regards,
Eric
Click to expand...

Any indications what the suitable twist rate will be for the .338's ?
 
Eric Stecker said:
Apology accepted. If you send me your shipping details I'll arrange for you to get Bryan's book.

We have completed the build of the machine that will make the 338 cal bullets. We managed to make some samples and they look very good. The next step is to set the machine up to run a known bullet (308 cal) so that we can debug any problems. The debug process is impossible to schedule. Once this machine proves production capable we'll go back to the 338 cal bullets.

I can't make a promise on date of availability but we have completed a key task in finishing the machine build. We are a big step closer.

Regards,
Eric
Click to expand...

Great new Eric!

Thanks for taking the time to keep us in the loop.
 
Ian, I switched from the Sierra's to the Lapuas and it made a world of difference to the groups. My last trip out with the new Barnard 6BR (sold the XR 100) i finished with a 5 shot group at 100 yards of .160" with a guestimate load of Re 17.

M.
 
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FWIW, I have seen the older Bergers fail to reach the target. This was when I was shooting at the 1000yd BR club and was the reason many shooters stuck to Sierras in spite of the fact that the Bergers, when they did reach the target, shot a bit better. This was not a common occurence by any means (I never experienced it myself. Probably because I wasn't pushing them so hard), but any sort of failure often becomes a part of shooting folklore and is soon considered commonplace. The failures I saw
were 30 calibers out of big cases. I am frankly more concerned with accuracy or precision than I am with BC, within reason and, if I was to shoot 6mm again, would choose the bullet which delivered the best vertical dispersion and try to learn to manage the wind. Plainly, this approach is considered to be foolish by many of my fellow shooters but I think I'll stick with it. Regards, Bill.
 
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