Debate: Gun Vs Bear Spray

Mumbles Marble Mouth

Mumbles Marble Mouth

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I read an article on bear spray vs guns on bear encounters. The study claims defense with a gun is more likely to end in fatality than bear spray. They base this information on reported events. After reading this article, a couple of questions came to mind questioning the legitimacy of the study.

1 - How many unreported encounters are their with the use of a firearm? I'm sure their is many who shoot and get the hell out of dodge out of fear they might get in trouble for killing a bear.

2 - The encounters involving a firearm, did they count those that had any firearm on them? Like people who had a .22 for hunting small game.

So what do you guys think? I don't buy what the study is selling. I'll be carrying my .375H&H with my .300gr FMJ for bears way before carrying any bear spray.

h ttp://www.backcountrychronicles.com/bear-spray-pepper-spray-vs-gun/

h ttp://www.themeateater.com/2016/the-cold-hard-facts-of-bear-deterrents-bear-spray-vs-firearms/
 
I've taken wildlife awareness courses for my job and every one insists that bear spray is statistically better than a firearm

I understand your point that perhaps all incidents where firearms were used weren't reported (for obvious reasons) and perhaps some incidents that involving firearms were firearms that weren't fit for purpose
 
todbartell said:
Give me a rifle any day. Why would you use a FMJ?
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I was given a few boxes of .300gr solid .375 H&H ammo that is advertised on the box for the largest dangerous game of Africa. So I'm thinking if a .300gr FMJ Solid is meant for the largest dangerous game of Africa, I'm sure is suitable for grizzly bears. Although I could be wrong. I do have plenty of other choices on hand such as .300gr Swift A-Frames, .300gr Partitions, and .300gr DGX.
 
Sniffer said:
I've taken wildlife awareness courses for my job and every one insists that bear spray is statistically better than a firearm

I understand your point that perhaps all incidents where firearms were used weren't reported (for obvious reasons) and perhaps some incidents that involving firearms were firearms that weren't fit for purpose
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One person points out that the study doesn't tell us that the successful encounters of bear spray on a grizzly is on grizzlies that are digging though garbage or wondering around a neighborhood and not being charged at in the woods. That person points out that a similar study in Alaska in 2008 shows that bear spray on a charging bear has very poor results compared to a gun.
 
I've had bear spray work well and fail miserably. And when you use spray, you are going to get some on you, especially if the wind is not in your favour.

Spray is a tool in the toolbox, just like a gun and the skill and knowledge to use it properly. If I could only pick one, it would be a firearm.
 
I’ve seen a bear stare at me ..... way to close .... and ignore a warning shot in the air and then saunter away. He came back the next day and a warning shot over the shoulder sent him packing. I guess warning shots need the appearance of intent? (Same bear). There was always a second shot ready, if needed and at these distances, I wouldn’t have risked pepper spray.

Nobody asked me the outcome to record in any study.
 
By the way, I had training with OC spray once and was told that some people have a resistance to the effects of the spray. We watched many videos of guys just ignoring direct shots in the face. I know bear spray is stronger, but who’s to say it’s going to work 100%?

And as pointed out .... it’s easy for it to end up on you .... that’s why law enforcement often get sprayed in training to know how to deal with it.
 
Given the choice, I would go with Bear Spray simply because when I go in the woods I do not want to be walking around with a gun in my hands if I am not looking to shoot something. I can deploy the spray on my belt much quicker than the gun on my pack.

Matt
 
I have yet to come to to toe with a bear I felt threaded by enough to fire a warning shot or direct fire. I have been hunted by a bull moose. During deer (of course) I was lost on the trails for a bit and took a walk down I trail I had never been on. Realizing my mistake I turned around to a bull moose literally walk8ng up behind me...approximately 20ft away. We stood facing each other. At first I thp8ght it was awesome and I said..."hello Mr moose"..... notix8ng it's massive pan of antlers and Clydesdale size I decided 60 seconds was enough for a staring contest. I raised my voice with the intent to shew it off. The moose just huffed at me. I made like a bear and nothing.....quickly 2 rounds flew out of my rifle into the air with 3 in the chamber and aimed btw it's eyes ..... I swear that moose shrugged it's shoulders as if to say " well if your going to be like that I'll leave". It turned full broadside and walked slowly into the woods disappearing about 100ft off the trail. Best moose encounter ever but damn. Bear spray would have been useless at that range if it decided to go rack down and charge, 3 or 4 steps and I'd be a mangled mess.

Out at camp I will never go out with some form of rifle or shotgun period after that.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
I was given a few boxes of .300gr solid .375 H&H ammo that is advertised on the box for the largest dangerous game of Africa. So I'm thinking if a .300gr FMJ Solid is meant for the largest dangerous game of Africa, I'm sure is suitable for grizzly bears. Although I could be wrong. I do have plenty of other choices on hand such as .300gr Swift A-Frames, .300gr Partitions, and .300gr DGX.
Click to expand...

FMJ (solids) are intended for straight line penetration on the largest game, elephant, hippo, rhino, and occasionally buffalo. They are poor performers on lesser game, and a soft point would be a wiser choice.
 
I'll take both please, sometimes a long gun can be too slow to bring into action, slung for example, some spray holsters are quick to deploy and spray can be easily deployed one handed. It will hopefully allow me to make space and get a lethal alternative ready.
As mentioned by others though, you are going to get sprayed too. More folks than realize it or will admit it will be suffering a great deal and perhaps even unable to function effectively or see. It sucks.
 
Lets agree that bear spray can be effective in some circumstances, and if folks choose to carry the stuff, I won't object. After all, it takes time, money, and desire to become sufficiently proficient with a firearm that it can be used effectively in self defense, and the complexity of our current firearm laws discourage participation in the shooting activities, which is largely by intent. But folks need to understand that there are also circumstances where the use of spray is inappropriate, and when appropriate, it has shortcomings.

If we examine the assertion that defensive firearms are more likely to kill a bear than spray, its quickly becomes evident that this little bit of wisdom is intended to place an ethical dilemma on the plate of someone who chooses to carry a gun, as in, the only possible outcome is a dead bear. I might point out that should killing a bear become necessary, spray can't do it, and begs to ask what other options might be available to someone in lethal danger once his can of spray has been depleted? A knife? An axe? Both have been used, but its fair to say that a devise that can strike a lethal blow from a distance is clearly beneficial. The assertion that carrying a gun will absolutely result in a dead bear, assumes that only lethal ammunition will be carried, and that it will only be fired to hit the bear, and no attempt will be made to scare or drive it off. I've commented many times that live fire isn't particularity effective at driving off bears, and that there is a risk of wounding or killing the bear with a ricochet, if a shot is fired into the dirt in front of him. Less lethal rounds are very good at driving off even the most determined bear, so the death of the bear is not assured simply because a gun is chosen over spray.

Bear spray cannot be used in the tent, a cabin, or other structure, a gun will work just fine. Bear spray cannot be used in the wind without risking being incapacitated yourself, shooting in the wind is not problem with a gun. Ditto for use in thick cover, like in a stand of willows in the summer. Ammunition is small and can be easily carried in quantity, where a can of spray might last for a couple of applications . . . how many canisters of spray do you intend to carry? What options are available to you after your spray is depleted? The guy with the gun has resolved his problem without depleting the ammo in his magazine, never mind the ammo in his pocket, on his sidesaddle, on his belt, or in his pack.
 
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I am yet to be convinced bear spray will work on a pissed off charging bear. I have been sprayed with police pepper spray before and it was horrible but I could still function. Bear spray is at best 2% OC and the average police spray is 10%. If a un-amped up person can fight through the pain of 10% how is 2% going to work on a amped up bear?

I see bear spray as a deterrent for curious or calm or unmotivated bear. I will bet on the gun having a better chance at saving you with a pissed off bear. Assuming you can get to it. Even though I have heard stories of bears taking multiple 12ga slugs and still charging.
 
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