decisions...

giant yetti

giant yetti

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I'm looking for a nice light single shotgun to pack while hunting deer.

This shotgun will be for targets of oportunity such as ruffies and bunnies. I think I've narrowed it down to the NEF tamer in stainless. rugged, simple, effective.

where I'm stuck, is between the .410 and 20g model. I believe the .410 would be adequate, but I'm normally happy to have a little extra horse power when it comes to firearms...

could you fine folk help me out with your thoughts on ammo cost/effectivity, versatility, noise... you know, the same old same old.

thanks!
 
giant yetti said:
what kind of range on chickens might I be able to expect from the .410? I've never owned one before.
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Range is a function of choke rather than the gauge of the shell, but I agree with trebore2880, a 20 trumps a .410 in versatility; as the .410 has a much smaller pellet count on target at any given range. The question is though, do you need that versatility? Thats a question you should answer first. To my way of thinking, a .410 is fine as a squirrel/ptarmigan/small grouse gun, but if you intend to shoot rabbits, and the larger species of grouse I would opt for the heavier payload of a 20 ga.
 
The first ruffie I every shot was at 10 yards and I shot it with a .410. It was standing on a stump and when I shot I blew it off the stump (aimed for head). It promptly got up and flew away never to be seen again. It was a full choked SG with 3 1/2 shells in 7 1/2 IIRC.

Not a big fan of the .410 either. YMMV
 
410s can be very deadly in its given range. I hunted last fall with a combo 22/410 3". I took more rabbits witha single blast of #5 shot then my buddies did with their 12ga semis and pumps. The 20ga will have a larger pattern and shells are cheaper but inside 30 yards there is no difference in killing power whether its a 410 or a 10ga. 410s take skill to hit flying targets due to the much longer shot string but most grouse are shot sitting and I've let to see a rabbit fly
 
daveg01 said:
The first ruffie I every shot was at 10 yards and I shot it with a .410. It was standing on a stump and when I shot I blew it off the stump (aimed for head). It promptly got up and flew away never to be seen again. It was a full choked SG with 3 1/2 shells in 7 1/2 IIRC.

Not a big fan of the .410 either. YMMV
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3 1/2 inch .410 shells eh, the fact they do not exist may explain why it didn't kill the grouse.
 
I have witnessed the .410 in action, and I have to admit I was impressed. the fact that the 20 is a little cheaper and a notable amount more powerful leaves me thinking that the 20 is at the advantage. more power, less cost.
 
brybenn said:
410s can be very deadly in its given range. I hunted last fall with a combo 22/410 3". I took more rabbits witha single blast of #5 shot then my buddies did with their 12ga semis and pumps. The 20ga will have a larger pattern and shells are cheaper but inside 30 yards there is no difference in killing power whether its a 410 or a 10ga. 410s take skill to hit flying targets due to the much longer shot string but most grouse are shot sitting and I've let to see a rabbit fly
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This is an interesting take on the subject and one worth considering. Brybenn was likely getting better kills with his .410 than his pals were with their 12s because he wasn't intimidated by recoil and blast, and was therefore shooting better.

As for the length of the shot-string being longer in the .410, lets consider that. When any shot load is fired, one pellet will hit the target first and one pellet will hit the target last, but the difference in time between those two impacts is very slight and if anything, a longer shot-string makes a flying target easier to hit, but the difference is not great.

Years ago, Remington brought out a duplex shot load that mixed small shot with large, the claim was better kills due to denser patterns. In reality, shooters were getting better kills due to longer shot-strings. Smaller, lighter pellets lose velocity at a faster rate than do heavier larger pellets, thus creating longer shot-strings.
 
I had no trouble grousing with my 12g last fall... the trouble is hiking in to a spot with a rem 700 and a full size 12 g pump. recoil isn't much of a worry for me, and I know I can take a bird with a .410 if I need to, but power/cost makes the 20 a little better for me. no disrespect to the .410, but the 20 is the winner for "field trials" this summer/fall. I'll try to post some sort of range report for you guys.
 
20ga is more versatile. As for the above problem witha longer shot string is that in a 410 the length so to speak of the column is much larger then its diameter and when only firing 1/2oz of shot at a moving/flying target there are more holes in the pattern. I agree with what you say in respect of times to impact but a 1 1/8oz load fired from a 12ga has about a 6-8 foot cloud whereas a 410 firing its .5oz has a 12-13 foot cloud. Leaving more space between pellets. Hence the 410 is a skeet shooters nightmare and referred to as an experts gauge. On a side note about my buddies is they just aren't that great of a shot and rush and empty their guns and then my hound gets to chase mr bunny to me. But you are right as I use a 410 to bring new shooters into shotgunning as they all think a 12ga has mysterious powers of recoil. I build their confidence with the smaller gauges first but I think the OP in this case can handle the recoil
 
My first shotgun 45 years ago was a .410 Savage pump (which I still have). I took more grouse with that gun than I can remember. Within its range it is very effective and I still take it out now and again for bush hunting. But as far as cost per shell and versatility, the 20 gauge does beat it. It comes down to what you prefer. In fact, many shooters nowadays that use a .410 are experienced shooters who have guns of other gauges but just like the .410.
 
brybenn said:
20ga is more versatile. As for the above problem witha longer shot string is that in a 410 the length so to speak of the column is much larger then its diameter and when only firing 1/2oz of shot at a moving/flying target there are more holes in the pattern. I agree with what you say in respect of times to impact but a 1 1/8oz load fired from a 12ga has about a 6-8 foot cloud whereas a 410 firing its .5oz has a 12-13 foot cloud. Leaving more space between pellets. Hence the 410 is a skeet shooters nightmare and referred to as an experts gauge. On a side note about my buddies is they just aren't that great of a shot and rush and empty their guns and then my hound gets to chase mr bunny to me. But you are right as I use a 410 to bring new shooters into shotgunning as they all think a 12ga has mysterious powers of recoil. I build their confidence with the smaller gauges first but I think the OP in this case can handle the recoil
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190 pounds, 5 11, and can run 3.5s through my 12g all day. just let your torso absorb the recoil :) no need to fight it :p I believe recoil management is all about technique
 
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