Dedicated filling of a PCP with a hand pump - good or bad?

leonardj

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I have read posts on other forums regarding the exclusive use of a hand pump for filling of PCP guns, and the concerns that moisture could pose the potential for problems.
It was not until I was sent an older Daystate Air Wolf, for repair of a slow leak, that I got to see firsthand what the possible downside could be to dedicated use of a hand pump for filling. Unfortunately, it was not until after I had cleaned up a lot of the parts, that it occurred to me to contact the owner for a bit more info, and it was then confirmed that the gun had been filled pretty much exclusively with a hand pump since new.

As I began dis-assembly, I thought it to be a bit strange that Daystate would use green threadlocker so liberally on so many of the parts - until I realized that it was not threadlocker at all, it was green corrosion residue from the brass parts. At that point I was wishing that I had taken pictures before I cleaned those parts up. Can't go back now.

When I opened the valve body, it was time to reach for the camera. The valve stem seat had a light green ring around it - despite being made of aluminum. It appeared that the green corrosion residue had somehow migrated to the valve seat? Unfortunately, the pics that I took didn't show what I was hoping to, because of the nature of the part. However, after the valve body was cleaned up, and the aluminum bore a little more shiny, I managed to get one decent pic.

Looking at the pic below, three of the arrows point to tiny blackened craters - the beginning of corrosion craters in the aluminum. the lower, left hand arrow points to a telltale abraded ridge where the traces of green corrosion residue was worked between the valve stem seal and the valve face.

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This close-up of the valve stem sealing lip shows the slight green coloration, and the abrasion of the sealing lip face (two upper arrows). Under a jeweller's loupe, it almost appears that the seal was seating onto a course grit sandpaper. The two lower arrows point to breaks in the sealing lip, which appear to me to be the result of the stem seating down on hard bits of debris.

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A special tool had to be made up to resurface, and polish the valve seat. No more craters, no more abraided ridge.

AW-03.jpg


The valve stem sealing lip has been re-cut and polished as well.

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The rest of the seals were all replaced, the gun re-assembled, and the reservoir charged. The gun was then set aside to monitor it for any signs of leaks. After about three weeks, with absolutely no apparent drop in reservoir pressure, the gun was ready to head home.

While this one particular case may not be a truly conclusive test for some folks, it has me thinking that it is probably to the benefit of my PCP airguns that I am just too lazy to be bothered using a hand pump on them.
 
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I have had my pcp for one year at the end of this month. I only use a hand pump, I store it and my rifle in the furnace room and I usually do all my pumping there because its very dry. Mine is a Hatsan pump and it has a desiccant bag in the handle compartment where the air is drawn in, I don't have much faith in the system and have thought of rigging up a larger container of desiccant but am too lazy at the moment. The one and only time I had gotten into the air cylinder I buttered up the sides and lightly coated all surfaces with silicone grease, of coarse the valve face and seat were left clean. I don't plan on getting another fill system so I guess I now have another reason to disassemble and inspect. How old or how many fills do you think that rifle is/has had. The seat on my B50 is brass and guess it isn't designed to last forever.
 
I have had a Benjamin Discovery and the hand pump for a few years now.
No problems, but I dont use it much either.
What precautions should I take?
 
How old or how many fills do you think that rifle is/has had.

I'm not entirely sure of the age of the gun, but I'd estimate possibly 5 to 6 years old.
Another variable with this particular gun, is the size of the reservoir - it is one of the bottle guns, thus the capacity of the reservoir is greater than many of the tube reservoir guns.
So, a LOT more pumping to fill it, thus greater potential for moisture to be produced.

With your gun having a brass valve seat, IMO, there is less chance of the valve seat being damaged by trace amounts of moisture. The brass will not crater as aluminum does.
If you were to open the gun up every few years, and treat the insides as you have done, you are not likely to have any issues.
 
I have had a Benjamin Discovery and the hand pump for a few years now.
No problems, but I dont use it much either.
What precautions should I take?
If you don't use it that much, you probably don't need to worry about it.
If you find yourself starting to use it a little more regularly, do as garmic has done, ie - wipe the inside of the reservoir down with silicone grease - and you should be OK.
 
I doubt how often you fill it or how large your res. is would mater. Moisture in contact with fragile surfaces is probably all it takes. I might make some difference how you stored it, like maybe muzzle down would allow the long term storage to occur with moisture away from valves, but I don't know.

I don't really know I buy the whole thing. Air is compressed to a very high ratio, and so even "dry" air is going to have a huge multiplier occur. And most household air, will eventually end up causing corrosion, at some point in the year, just not sure I buy it. You know, if there was a liter of water over your valve, or a speck, the corrosion, is a molecule, by molecule effect. Maybe the companies involved could just use something more resistant, maybe ceramics, or Ti. The guns cost enough, and it is to the advantage of the makers to hold open the market for the hand pumps.
 
I doubt how often you fill it or how large your res. is would mater.
It certainly does matter.
Consider:
If you pump a 500 cc reservoir two or three times per shooting session, and you shoot regularly, there is a far greater potential to have moisture build up in sufficient quantity to potentially cause damage. (More pumping = more potential for producing moisture).
However, on the opposite end of the scale, if you pump a 200 cc reservoir once or twice a month, if that, for the occasional elimination of pests, there would be very little possibility of any moisture to worry about. (Less pumping = less potential to produce moisture).

it is to the advantage of the makers to hold open the market for the hand pumps.
Actually, wrong again.
Virtually all manufacturers of high end guns recommend that you DO NOT use hand pumps with their products.
 
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I can only speak from my experience with a hatsan at44 and a hatsan pump. I only use a hand pump and I haven't had any issues in the 4 years I've been shooting. I would estimate more than one hundred fills. I did rig the handle to use dessicant from princess auto and I recharge it when it is pink. I've had my tube apart many times for various reasons and there is no sign of condensation or corrosion. I also use a very thin layer of silicone grease on everything too.

It is safer to use scuba air. In my experience it is possible to use pump air. YMMV...
 
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Guess it depends on the maker, and what they do with their fill fittings. Crosman p-rod fill cap....

I'm on a Hill pump exclusively, and no problems with the pistol, or my HPA'd QB 78 which lacks the ceramic filter. Paying attention to the pump manufacturer's instructions will go a long ways towards avoiding moisture problems. ~Which reminds me, time to change the dessicant on the pump. I refuse to start paying for air- it's bad enough that most gas stations now charge a dollar for a 2 minute run on the tire compressor...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 
Guess it depends on the maker, and what they do with their fill fittings. Crosman p-rod fill cap....

I'm on a Hill pump exclusively, and no problems with the pistol, or my HPA'd QB 78 which lacks the ceramic filter. Paying attention to the pump manufacturer's instructions will go a long ways towards avoiding moisture problems. ~Which reminds me, time to change the dessicant on the pump. I refuse to start paying for air- it's bad enough that most gas stations now charge a dollar for a 2 minute run on the tire compressor...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
The Daystate has a bronze particulate filter on the fill valve - probably similar in concept to the ceramic filter shown in your pic above.

I have no idea how many fills this Daystate had seen, nor how much pumping was required to fill the HUGE bottle reservoir.
All I can say is that I sure wouldn't want to be the one manning that hand pump.

Good to hear from folks that have had no problems thus far with dedicated filling using a hand pump.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if it's the pumping, or being stored in a vehicle without pressure...
1/2 ton trucks are especially bad for rapid heating/cooling of guns~ and this includes firearms as well.
I've seen severe damage to a rifle of mine loaned to B.I.L.- who stored my 94 in a soft padded case in the back of his extended cab for a period of 4 months. The rust on the inside of the action was hard to believe...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 
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