Definition of "unissued"

Claven2

Claven2

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After a couple recent dealings on the EE (where I was at the loosing end - lol), I got to thinking - at what point does a gun become something less than "unissued condition"?

If a gun has clearly not been issued and still has storage grease on it, but has been improperly stored in Canada and now has rust on items like buttplate, bolt handle, bottom metal, cleaning rod, etc. - is it still in "unissued condition"? What if that could be taken off with steel wool leaving only splotchy blueing or stained white steel... still unissued?

What if there are major gouges in the stock, but the gun has storage grease and doesn't look to have been fired? Can non-structural issues with the stock all by themselves make a gun something less than "unissued condition"?

I've seen many guns that were still "new in the grease" that would have been downgraded to NRA "good" or "fair" because the owner allowed cosmetics to degrade on those parts of the rifle that were not well preserved with grease, or where a gun Century sold as "gunsmith specials" because an unissued Mauser or Enfield had too many storage dings in the wood to still be sold as "like new" or was missing something like a matching cleaning rod or stacking swivel. After availability dries up and the rifle becomes scarce again, many of these are sometimes now sold as "like new" or "unissued", but is that ethical? Or accurate?

What are people's thoughts on this?
 
Too me, un-issued should not show any readily apparent rust, or major dings. I have bought rifles with a bit of rust lurking here and there, but nothing that couldn't be wiped off or controlled easily. For that matter, I have bought new rifles that had rust on them in non critical areas. Back before the internet or digital cameras, when I bought guns advertised in the Gunrunner, for example, I had to rely on the NRA standards. Now I think it was standard practice for most sellers to upgrade at least one point on the scale, everyone expected that, so for the most part this worked OK.
 
To me, "un-issued" means it looks exactly like it how it did when it came off the assembly line. At least, it seems this is what is implied.

I think there are many sellers even on CGN who describe an item to be in better condition than it actually is. I find sellers who describe things as "mint" or "unissued" usually don't have very good pics, and the prices are often pretty wishful. It's not that hard to do an accurate description and point out any obvious flaws.

Another thing that bothers me is when sellers advertise top dollar milsurps and don't have pictures of the "mint, un-issued" piece in question. I'm sure any seller who has been on here for more than a couple of months is capable of uploading pics and putting them in the add.

-Steve
 
"Unissued" shouldn't really be taken as an indication of condition, IMO. But I suspect a lot of people might take it that way. It really should only indicate that it was never issued to a soldier and has sat in storage since it was built. Anyone who has a multi gun cabinets knows that a lot of small damage can happen over time, even to guns that are just sitting in storage.

Put another way, it might be a virgin, but its still a 70 year old virgin.
 
I think the term "unissued" has morphed and been abused over the years, I don't think it started out as a rating of condition.

Generally condition standards began with the NRA system. And there was never an "unissued" condition, just New, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor. This has since changed and expanded to separate NRA condition standards for modern and antique firearms with further categories.

So back in the day it was simply New, Ex, VG, G, F, P.

I think what happened was with the huge influx of cheap milsurps into the US post WW2, "unissued" started to appear in print ads simpy as an advertising gimmick, something to get an edge on the competition and set their firearms apart from all the vet bringback "junk" (which is what it was considered back then). Since then it has changed into a condition standard that incorporates all the problems you have brought up.
 
It's funny how the word "Unissued" gets used in the firearms forums, not just by private sellers but by dealers as well to sell their wares for a few dollars more. To me Unissued=New as well as New=Unissued. Is there such a thing as a Unissued/New Milsurp, if so very few and far between. Some people also feel that unissued could mean unissued since refurb. When I see the word unissued in a for sale add I take it with a grain of salt "Buyer Beware"
 
Except that in some cases, "unissued/new" IS the norm. Some examples I can think of:

-M48BO Mauser
-Brazilian M1935 Mausers
-Peruvian M1909 Mauser Originals
-Portugese M1941 Mausers

If I see any of these as "unissued", I expect them to be factory fresh.
 
Suppose you bought a new unissued milsurp full of packing grease. Why wouldnt you want to remove the grease? Where do you store your guns that they need the original grease in order to keep the rust off them? The grease doesn't hold the value or anything for me anyways.
 
Claven2 said:
Except that in some cases, "unissued/new" IS the norm. Some examples I can think of:

-M48BO Mauser
-Brazilian M1935 Mausers
-Peruvian M1909 Mauser Originals
-Portugese M1941 Mausers

If I see any of these as "unissued", I expect them to be factory fresh.
Click to expand...

And 1909 Argentine Mauser.
 
"Unissued" means it was never issued. It either was or was not issued.

"Excellent", "Very Good" etc. speak to condition. This is where the fun begins.

The statement "Unissued Condition" is meaningless.

If I was buying a gun claimed to be "Unissued" and in "Excellent" condition I would want a good description and pics.
 
I think the term should be New-Old stock. This implies never used, but has been in stock since leaving the factory. Therefore some minor defects such as light rust or dings are somewhat expected.
 
I dont think unissued should be used as a condition description either. Lets face facts. Unissued means it was never issued to a soldier. Doesnt mean it was well cared for in storage, not dragged around the world, wasnt made 40 to 70 years ago. I have a 1941 PORT K98k. The metal is MINT, the stock has 2 rough spots, a ding and a small gouge. The gun obviously got these marks from storage, transport, etc, but it was still unissued.
 
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