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- Thread starter gunsdora
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vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
The first step is to verify your bore diameter and then you choose a bullet 1-2 thou larger than groove diameter.
If the big factory producers don't have a good match look a the custom mold makers. Boomer, Accurate, NEI, NOE etc.
Many bullets can be used as cast. RCBS and Lyman sizers fit in the lubersizer devices. Lee makes a simple push through sizer that fits in your press and can be ordered in any size. Just pan lube or finger lube the bullets.
If the big factory producers don't have a good match look a the custom mold makers. Boomer, Accurate, NEI, NOE etc.
Many bullets can be used as cast. RCBS and Lyman sizers fit in the lubersizer devices. Lee makes a simple push through sizer that fits in your press and can be ordered in any size. Just pan lube or finger lube the bullets.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Just find a soft close fitting bullet to pound through the barrel with a good solid close fitting metal rod.
A .452 or. 457 would work. Ideally soft and tapered. A .429 might work if you squash it a little first.
Lead fishing sinkers are good if you can find a good size.
A .452 or. 457 would work. Ideally soft and tapered. A .429 might work if you squash it a little first.
Lead fishing sinkers are good if you can find a good size.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Wow. That must be one of those barrels that look more like a polygonal hole than lands and grooves.
I've never loaded for one that had such an extreme difference between the maximum and minimum. My suggestions would be to try driving a bullet into the throat to see what diameter the start of the rifling is and so you have a bullet that will fit in the chamber. Though old military chambers are generally pretty generous.
Soft lead would make it easier for the bullet swage to shape on firing. Black powder actually bumps up bullets better than smokeless too.
I don't know what size mold to recommend. You should ask to have this thread moved into the Antique and BP section as there's a better chance of finding some first-hand experience with this particular case.
I've never loaded for one that had such an extreme difference between the maximum and minimum. My suggestions would be to try driving a bullet into the throat to see what diameter the start of the rifling is and so you have a bullet that will fit in the chamber. Though old military chambers are generally pretty generous.
Soft lead would make it easier for the bullet swage to shape on firing. Black powder actually bumps up bullets better than smokeless too.
I don't know what size mold to recommend. You should ask to have this thread moved into the Antique and BP section as there's a better chance of finding some first-hand experience with this particular case.
I've had good success using certain 45 Cal bullets sized down to 0.448" with a Lee Custom Lube-Sizer. Choose a bullet with deep lube grooves such as the Lee 90268 and 90577, but others with Gas Checks have worked as well. You're shooting at Springfield Trapdoor pressures, so you can get away without a Gas Check.
Use paper patched bullets, that is what the rifles and ammo originally were designed for and used. Your barrel especially if pitted and or rough condition will stay cleaner and lead free a lot longer unlike shooting plain just lead bullets.
Bores tended to measure .430 to .433 inch with four grooves approximately .006 inch deep. The twist was one turn in 21.65 inches. The grooves in the rifles when new or excellent condition are almost always .445 to .446 inch.
All M71/84 rifles have the bore size stamped on the chamber on the left side, most that I have seen range between 10.90 to 11.05mm.
The cartridges for the Model 71 and 71/84 rifles were very similar. The 71 was loaded with a 386-grain, roundnosed paper patched bullet. The charge was 77 grains of black powder, giving 1,443 fps velocity from the long 33-inch barrel.
The cartridge for the repeater M71/84 was identical to the Model 71 round, except the roundnose bullet was replaced with a flatnose design. This change was surely in deference to the tubular magazine, with the goal being to prevent rounds firing in the magazine.
They originally were loaded with soft lead bullets around .430 to .435 inch. Then they were paper patched with about a 13-pound high linen content paper, bringing them back up to .445 to .446 inch.
Google - "Paper Patching Bullets" for detailed instructions on how to paper patch bullets for these old rifles and calibres.
Rule of Thumb depending on barrel condition and rifling:
Smokeless Powder Loads - Unpatched PP bullet = slightly less or exact bore diameter (top of rifling lands) to a max of 0.006" over bore diameter based on using soft pure lead to keep pressures low and yield a paper patched bullet 0.001" under/less to or up to the 0.002" above rifling groove diameter (.445 to .448), the pure soft lead bullet should bump up to fill or compress slightly to the exact groove size.
Black Powder Loads - Unpatched PP bullet = 0.004 to 0.006" smaller than bore diameter to yield a patched bullet 0.001 to 0.002" greater than bore diameter
http://3.bp.########.com/_59GYpEVAu0U/S_NyVDPVw7I/AAAAAAAAAFI/bnE9unBLDZw/s1600/boredia.jpg
Bores tended to measure .430 to .433 inch with four grooves approximately .006 inch deep. The twist was one turn in 21.65 inches. The grooves in the rifles when new or excellent condition are almost always .445 to .446 inch.
All M71/84 rifles have the bore size stamped on the chamber on the left side, most that I have seen range between 10.90 to 11.05mm.
The cartridges for the Model 71 and 71/84 rifles were very similar. The 71 was loaded with a 386-grain, roundnosed paper patched bullet. The charge was 77 grains of black powder, giving 1,443 fps velocity from the long 33-inch barrel.
The cartridge for the repeater M71/84 was identical to the Model 71 round, except the roundnose bullet was replaced with a flatnose design. This change was surely in deference to the tubular magazine, with the goal being to prevent rounds firing in the magazine.
They originally were loaded with soft lead bullets around .430 to .435 inch. Then they were paper patched with about a 13-pound high linen content paper, bringing them back up to .445 to .446 inch.
Google - "Paper Patching Bullets" for detailed instructions on how to paper patch bullets for these old rifles and calibres.
Rule of Thumb depending on barrel condition and rifling:
Smokeless Powder Loads - Unpatched PP bullet = slightly less or exact bore diameter (top of rifling lands) to a max of 0.006" over bore diameter based on using soft pure lead to keep pressures low and yield a paper patched bullet 0.001" under/less to or up to the 0.002" above rifling groove diameter (.445 to .448), the pure soft lead bullet should bump up to fill or compress slightly to the exact groove size.
Black Powder Loads - Unpatched PP bullet = 0.004 to 0.006" smaller than bore diameter to yield a patched bullet 0.001 to 0.002" greater than bore diameter
http://3.bp.########.com/_59GYpEVAu0U/S_NyVDPVw7I/AAAAAAAAAFI/bnE9unBLDZw/s1600/boredia.jpg
The 1871 Mausers are generally sized around .451/2", where the 71/84s are generally in the .443" range.
Slug your bore and order the mould as required.
